CX Passport

The one with the customer first downs - Jeff Krogman SVP MasterCard E114

April 25, 2023 Rick Denton Season 2 Episode 114
CX Passport
The one with the customer first downs - Jeff Krogman SVP MasterCard E114
Show Notes Transcript

🎤🎞️Jeff Krogman of MasterCard explains getting it right for customers in “The one with the customer first downs” CX Passport Episode 114🎧 What’s in the episode?...


CHAPTERS

0:00 Introduction

2:34 Jeff’s role at MasterCard

4:04 How to keep “non-customer” roles focused on the customer

6:40 A wide spectrum of “customer” for MasterCard

8:35 What does Voice of the Customer look like across a wide customer spectrum

10:27 Listening to all B2B customer types

12:35 Personalization with a spectrum of customers

15:00 Creating what customers want

17:13 1st Class Lounge Travel, Fun & Food

22:48 Bringing customer and non-customer teams together

25:41 Process. Process. Process…Getting the basics right for customers

28:10 Addressing the challenge of payment industry newcomers

31:26 Contact info and closing


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Episode resources:

Jeff Krogman LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-krogman-a30a6210/

The Reluctant Traveler with Eugene Levy

Jeff Krogman:

Sometimes companies, we look at these shiny objects, look at this new thing that we're going to do. But it's sometimes the basic blocking and tackling, grinding out those, you know, 10 yards at a time, those first downs that make all the difference, and whether a customer wants to stay with you or leave.

Rick Denton:

You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode we’ll talk with our guests about great CX, travel...and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. When you're working for one of the world's most well known brands, MasterCard, you have a massive impact on customer experience. Even the definition of customer has a wide spectrum as you consider the end customer tapping the card, the bank, choosing MasterCard, network, and the the retailer managing the purchase. With that breadth of impact customer experience matters. With that, though, we in the CX world, we often get into this echo chamber of ourselves, we say to others, everyone should be focused on the customer, or spend time trying to encourage what we might label as, quote non customer facing roles to be more customer centric. Would it help though, if we learn from the people who wouldn't necessarily describe themselves as being in a customer experience role? How can we learn from them about what it takes to focus on the customer? Let's do that today, as we talk with Jeff Krogman, Senior Vice President and MasterCard. Jeff currently drives the delivery of content and technical writing. With that we can see a path to the customer, even though there's not a direct contact point. So how does this compare to say the frontline contact center agent or the retail employee or the gate agent? Well, we think of a wide spectrum of those that interact with the customer directly. Jeff and I met at a customer experience awards reveal party, he's got CX in the blood and brings that perspective of the need for all roles to keep the customer at the center in an industry payments, experiencing and really having already experienced significant change. How can an experience be designed that will retain and attract customers to stick with your brand? Let's find out with Jeff today. Jeff, welcome to CX Passport.

Jeff Krogman:

Rick, I really appreciate it. It was great to meet you at that conference, and I'm really happy to be here with you today.

Rick Denton:

It's gonna be fun. This one I'm enjoying. It's a slight departure. But that's I kind of said that about all my episodes, there's such a wide range. So I like slight departures. Let's just start with the beginning because it is a bit of a departure. I mentioned how you work for MasterCard in the intro, but it didn't really in detail describe your role? Would you just share a little bit about your role for the listener, please?

Jeff Krogman:

Sure, I'd be happy to. So I work in our technology organization. And I work for a group that's called Global Customer Care. And within Global Customer Care, there's many facets to what we do. You mentioned the end consumer. So we do have a business to consumer interaction. You talked about the context centers, etc. We have a b2b, where we are working with our governments, our digital giants, the banks, if you will, government agency, so we're working closely in that traditional b2b model. But we also handle some delivery of products. And in onboarding, we also handle some activities as it relates to content, you mentioned content. And such an important thing, I think it's oftentimes is overlooked. And my role really, is to look across the organization, I think it's it's all of our roles, truthfully, to look across the organization. And that customer experience and how they're interacting with Mark MasterCard, how they're consuming MasterCards products. And from a service perspective, are we delivering the absolute best of MasterCard every single day? Because let's face it, people have options, right?

Rick Denton:

Yeah, that that optionality is something I don't know if we necessarily give enough mental space to it as customers, but it's absolutely there. Right? It's not that we have to choose a particular to one or the other. And so our experience with that will be what matters. I want to talk about that technical writing and that content space for a little bit. And the reason I want to pick on that one is because some of the other areas you're talking about, are traditionally customer facing, we understand them, they say face that customer. When I think about technical writing, or product or content, it's very, it can be very internally focused, you're centering How do I describe the product and not as much on that external customer? Or I suppose there's a risk of that. So how do you keep your team focused on the customer and what does that look like?

Jeff Krogman:

You know, what's interesting is I heard a statistic not too long ago that MasterCard has over 800 products. that we offer Oh my gosh. Really good. Yeah, it was great 100 products, you know, acquisitions, we've been having the acquisition space for a while. But yeah, that's the number I've heard. Now, I suspect that's probably pretty close to be an accurate. And if you think about writing, technical writing, and if you have a customer, and I'll talk about a b2b customer here, that has so many products with MasterCard, and how do you interact with them and give them the information that they need, that only pertains to them. And that's something that, you know, we can certainly inundate, and bury a customer, as a former customer of MasterCards. On the b2b side, I experienced that firsthand. And I never want a customer b2b customer to ever experience that again. So, you know, one of the things that I'm really proud of is we're looking at how we interact, and how we talk to our customers and writing technical specifications, making sure that we're giving them the information that they need, but we're not making it too complicated, or so that they have to, you know, they don't understand it, we're also trying to tailor it, we're trying to personalize it, to make sure that when we speak to them, we're giving them only the information that pertains to them. And I will tell you with a company this size, it's tough, because you want to make sure that you're not missing something, that there's not something that we didn't give a customer that they actually need. So that's been a challenge. And that's something that we continue to, you know, work through and focus on. But you know, I'm really excited about the personalization aspect of being able to deliver content to our customers specific to how they participate with MasterCard.

Rick Denton:

I actually want to circle back to that personalization here in a little bit. But I think before I want to talk about personalization, I want to talk about who is the customer, I've danced around it a little bit, you've mentioned a b2b customer. When you and I first met, my mentality was really focused on me, the end customer, I have wallet, I have card, I tap card, end of End of message there, right? There's clearly more customers to be had there. So I'm curious, maybe just give us a sense of what is the sweet the spectrum of customers and how you think of the word customer when it comes to MasterCard,

Jeff Krogman:

I think it's important for us to to make sure that everybody understands that MasterCard participates in a four party model. And that is that we are not direct to consumer. We do have relationships with the merchants, which you talked about in the onset. And we have the processors and we have the financial institutions that actually issue our products. And we've stayed true to that four party models. So when I talk about the customer in a b2b perspective, I truly am talking about an entity whether it be a digital giant, or a government agency issuing a benefit card, or a traditional financial institution. And more and more, we're seeing, you know, an uptick in in FinTech. So, from a core business model, our customers are those that I just described.

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Rick Denton:

And it's even there, right? As you're saying it right? I guess I'm the I the customer with the card in my hand at the store is the customer of your customer. So indirectly, you're serving me. But that's not who you're you're working with directly. So I'm kind of curious, you've got the spectrum of customers? How are you? Well, there's two things that I want to ask about. You talked about the person that zation let's let's go there. Second, let's start with just how do you even go about getting the input from the spectrum of customers, but what does Voice of the Customer look like? In this scenario? In these scenarios, actually

Jeff Krogman:

You know when you're when, when you're talking about, I'm gonna talk about a financial a traditional financial institution. And when we when we partner or we work with a traditional financial institution, the thing that's important, and I can talk about this, because I used to sell for MasterCard, it's not about us, it's about them, and what makes them successful and what makes them be able to service their end consumer the way they need to, whether it be lending, or whether it be a checking account, whatever it might be. And when you hear that when you understand their voice, and by the way this model can apply to you name, the customer type, but I'm talking about a traditional financial institution. We try to meet them and deliver to them a solution that needs there needs that will help them be successful and effective. And in in many cases, that could be at the checking account, for example, where we say, you know, we have a, a solution, where you could potentially do a pay by account or a traditional debit card or whatever it might be. But that's really what we try to do is understand customer needs customer pain points. And how we solution against those.

Rick Denton:

Can I pull it that thread a little bit? You talk about customer pain points. So it's, again, that kind of listening there? How are you hearing? And it can be any of your examples, any of your customers? But how are you hearing those pain points, because it's not the traditional customer calls in and says, heck, I just had an experience with a brand this morning, which will remain unnamed, has nothing to do with the payment side. But they found out about the issue that I was having, because I contacted them directly, something was broken in their product. And so how are you hearing those pain points? And then what are those solutions tend to look like? How are they getting out to your customer and then to your customers customers?

Jeff Krogman:

So one of the things that we do is I mean, we do we have a traditional voice of a customer interaction that we conduct. But we also use a lot of data, we have a lot of insights. We've introduced speech and text analytics, some artificial intelligence to really understand and drill down into what the customer needs might be without them having to tell us everything. And then we solution against that, right? We, you know, we do understand that for our b2b customers to be competitive, they have to have a competitive product. What would make you as a consumer choose a financial institution over the financial institution across the street? Is it because they have a MasterCard or a different branded card? Or is it because they have a different type of an account that you need, that's more beneficial. So I think what we try to do is understand what they're saying what their what their true pain points are, and how we can overlay that. So we really do look at them at a fundamental level and understand, okay, this is something that we think we can help you with a type of a product solution, whether it be like I said, a card, a digital solution, pay by account, Bill Pay, I mean, we have so many loyalty is a big thing. You know, paying with rewards and being able to donate through, you know, when you pay with your loyalty program to a local charity, for example. All of those things are really important. Those are important to the end consumer, and as a financial institution to be able to offer a solution like that is very important to us.

Rick Denton:

Okay, okay, that makes sense to me. So now the perfect chance for us to now let's talk about personalization. Because what matters to one of your customers and segment of customer customers as well, might be that how do I use my loyalty program to be able to support a charitable organization in my, my world, another customer might care about the insurance products associated with a particular card or the ease of check. So how do you go about that the personalization that you talked about before with this spectrum of customers? How are how are you tackling some of that personalization, even if you want to get specific into sort of the content in the tech writing how you get that personalization, right, so that it's not so granular, that it's impossible, but that it's not so big, that it's worthless to the customer.

Jeff Krogman:

I think when you win a talk about a couple of things here, number one, I'm gonna talk about the end consumer for a second. And one of the things that's important is segmentation. And understanding, you know, who the actual consumers and what segment they will fall in, I don't, I'm not trying to label anybody but, you know, buyers spenders, they do fall into certain segments, you'll have high earners, you'll have travelers, you'll have everyday spenders, whatever it might be. And understanding you know, one of the things that people may be surprised about is one of the most the the most used type of card would be like everyday spend grep, gas and groceries and guess who uses that? More? So it's it's it's women we found? So what are some of the things that we can do from a benefits from an insurance from a protection to make things easier? Those are all things that we that we look at. Now, when you talk about content and technical writing. What may apply to you as a financial institution, as a, an acquirer for merchants may be completely different. And how you talk to them and how you write to them. And understand trying to understand their back office understand their environment, it's not always easy. So we try to be consistent. One of the things I would love to do some time and we haven't thought about it, is for somebody to take what we write to a customer and follow those instructions. And so yeah, happens, you know, kind of eating our own dog food, if you will. Absolutely. Because I have actually had customers asked me for SLAs around our technical writing our documentation

Rick Denton:

Interesting, I don't know that I've heard the term SLA associated with technical writing. Okay, that's interesting. The idea of, of going out and doing exactly that. All right, I have an I'm just not as familiar with the products, but I have something that needs to get initiated, something that gets needs to be modified, I need to follow the set of instructions. We talked a lot about that in the customer experience space of that, walking in our customers shoes and actually doing that thing, I can see why that'd be something that you'd want to do. Have you have you run into a situation where the technical writing that you're getting that feedback back from the customers of, hey, I don't understand this, I don't know how to operate in this. And then how do you take that feedback and then pivot it into something that's clearer and more focus, I don't want to use more focused on the customer. But that idea of, you've heard what they've said, and you've improved upon what they've done.

Jeff Krogman:

I think one of the things that's really important is as a as a technical writer, oftentimes, you're not a subject matter expert, you may be aligned and assigned to a developer. And that person may be the one writing those requirements. And it's up to the technical writer to then really decipher, and make sure that we're writing in a way communicating in a way that makes sense. So I think one of the thing that's really important, is for us as even as technical writers to understand what's being said, the product and the requirements, because what what happens is you end up getting frustrated customers, you get a bunch of calls into our contact centers. And you basically get a, you know, a situation where, in many cases, our end our b2b customers saying I have got to get this thing developed and programmed, and into my environment before this rolls in on your side. Otherwise, there could be financial penalties or whatever it might be, right. So it is really incumbent on us to understand to get close to and be the best that we can be. And I'll tell you, that is not easy.

Rick Denton:

Oh, Jeff, that's fantastic. Absolutely. That's not easy. You're talking about incredible suite of demands on someone trying to get that content, right, get the experience right for the customer, all that together. That's not easy. And you and I were talking before we hit record here we're talking about traveling sometimes, a little pivot here, travel isn't easy as well. And I want to give you a little break here I want us to take a break and join me here in the first class lounge a nice place of respite for our travelers or for the conversation as well. We'll move quickly here have a little bit of fun what is a dream travel location from your past?

Jeff Krogman:

A dream travel location for my pet. I will tell you I have been very fortunate in the in working for MasterCard to have traveled a lot of places. I mean, there's a lot of places I still want to go my favorite place has been Florence Italy.

Rick Denton:

Oh yes. How recent is that for you?

Jeff Krogman:

I was there a number of years ago it was just in Rome within the last two to three years on my way to Greece. I I had to stay over. I was just in Athens and and I liked it. It wasn't my favorite and even Rome. I like it but it's just not Florida. So there's just a lot of you know, a lot of history, a lot of arts a lot of the Renaissance you see in Florence, the food is outstanding. Everybody drinks wine, it seems there's no age restriction there. So it was just a really really relaxing, educating educational and I just love that trip.

Rick Denton:

I the reason I asked how long it's been there's something about Florence that just gets into your soul. And it had been decades since I'd been to Florence before returning again with my family and I still remembered it vividly as the backpacker than becoming the the traveler there. It's just a city that just gets in all the way through for everything. The food the sights. Heck, I even brought back a coffee mug from the Fiorentina the the football the soccer club there. Oh no, it just gets all the way through. Yep. bistec Fiorentina, there's nothing quite like it there. Big old big ol slab. Alright, we can't just talk about Florence. Although I could spend the entire episode talking about that. You've mentioned some things that places you want to be. So where is a dream travel location you've not been to yet.

Jeff Krogman:

So I will tell you, you know, before we got on arrows, Tony about you know, upcoming trips that I just came back from, from the Nordics, Norway and Denmark and I'm back on my way back there to Denmark on Sunday. But I'll tell you, I've never seen the Northern Lights. And you know, from what I understand, Finland, Sweden, Norway. way, they're very visible, they're very vibrant. That would be someplace I'd really want to visit because I just have never seen it and I find them fascinating.

Rick Denton:

I'm going to point you to a show. I've never seen them either. I want to see them. I think they'd be stunning. There is a show out, I believe it's Netflix, Eugene Levy. And he is doing traveling and he his character is he doesn't like to travel doesn't want to leave where he is. And so he's putting these in. And the first one is Finland, I believe and it is getting to see the northern lights and other things of their so check out that episode. You might enjoy that as well.

Jeff Krogman:

I like Eugene Levy too.

Rick Denton:

Oh he's hilarious. Great. Yeah. So there you go. Listeners go check out that show. It's pretty good. I haven't made it through a couple episodes. But it is fun. So far. We talked about food. Jeff, what is a favorite thing of yours to eat?

Jeff Krogman:

Oh, man. So you know what, I can't pass up a really good steak. My fan. I'm definitely a fan of steak. And not a fantasy food. So I would say I would probably say a steak would be my number one.

Rick Denton:

Nice. Well, you know who you're talking to here in the North Texas area, how I would absolutely have a good piece of steak. And I didn't say this the beginning tell the listeners where you're from.

Jeff Krogman:

I'm from I'm originally from Wisconsin. And but I'm located now in Lake St. Louis, Missouri. MasterCards headquarters are in the area, or I should say our technology headquarters. So I relocated here back in 1998.

Rick Denton:

And so there's there's some good steaks there as well. But I know that you and I got the chance to meet each other here in Texas. So I encourage you to head back down here and grab their steak sometime. What is on the other side, a thing your parents forced you to eat but you're hated as a kid.

Jeff Krogman:

My mom made this thing it was called potato chip hot dish. And it was the worst thing I've ever had it had tuna which I don't like

Rick Denton:

Oh, okay, we're out. But keep going

Jeff Krogman:

cream of mushroom soup, which I don't like mushrooms, canned peas, which I don't like canned peas. And she would crushed potato chips and put it in this casserole dish or pan and bake it. And I can't imagine anything worse to eat than that.

Rick Denton:

Sorry, mom. For all the all the parents, the moms, the dads that have made, I think I've had that under a different name. But I've definitely had it and have not enjoyed it. It's not my choice either. Let's let's leave that thanks to the stakes. Now let's get back to travel what is one travel item not including your phone, your passport, that you will not leave home without

Jeff Krogman:

Oh, boy. iPad, gotta have my iPad with my air pods

Rick Denton:

Jeff, I want to go back to something. And we've talked about this a little bit. But I want to go a little deeper. Your team that we've talked about with the technical writing and the content focused, I don't think that we tend to formally label that as inside the customer experience space, but it clearly has this massive impact on the customer. So how did your team then engage with other teams that are perhaps the more traditionally customer facing, so that you can ensure this overall delivery of great customer experience?

Jeff Krogman:

Well, I'm gonna talk about. So I in addition to the content team, I also have a team that handles we'll call it onboarding. So when a customer buys a, a product from MasterCard, and let's just say that they want to add a new, maybe they want to add a, you know, a World Elite Card to their portfolio, for example, I have a team that actually works in partnership with a delivery team to make sure that the parameters, everything needed behind the scenes in our environments are set up correctly. So that when a card is used, or in any product, that it works the way it should. And I'll tell you one of the things that I when I took this team over, I took that team over a number of years ago, and most of what we did was manual, and you know, maybe sharing some secrets here, but it really was and anytime you have something that you're doing that that important that affects production and ultimately end consumers ability or inability to you know, use their their MasterCard, you have to be perfect. And something like as as you would think as simple as adding a new bid to MasterCards environment was not it would take almost an hour and we had this maker checker model somebody would manually key in somebody would, you know, review and make sure it was accurate. So all you need is one one keystroke mistake and you can have a significant impact. So I'll tell you one of the things that we that we have done in this space is look to make that customer experience very different and putting the power in their hands and the ability To do something like I just described, but in a fashion that's automated. And that's, you know, I don't want to say risk free, because there's always risk when you're dealing with anything, but much less riskier, in in, you know, doing away with forms, which are such a thing of the past, but yet, so many entities now still use forms, to do things. So you know that I don't want to say it was a war on forms. But it definitely was a way to simplify. And, you know, obviously, what we want to do is make that experience better, but accelerate time to revenue, get those cards in the street, or whatever it might be, you know, to help those end consumers in our b2b customers

Rick Denton:

you are hitting at, I almost feel like I wanted to clear it. We're already in March here, and this episode will air well after March. So we're well into 2023. But I feel like 2023 is the year of process for customer experience. I keep hearing that over and over. So when you're talking about automating when you're talking about a war on forums, when you're talking about getting faster, it feels like that our pendulum was over in the the digital or the creative and the and, and not to be anti digital, but just sort of the the Big Bang kind of space of customer experience. When really people are desiring more of the just make it repeatable, make it something that is simple or efficient, or make it make it consistent rather than Delight me Now that's not to say we're getting rid of surprise and delight, it's not to say that customers aren't wowed by the wow experience. But it feels like I hear this conversation coming up more and more this year than I have in the past. And it's it's very deeply into my heart. Heck, it's even the core of my company's name execution for customer experience, that process is what's going to help drive great customer experience,

Jeff Krogman:

I will tell you that what you just said, could not be more true in our in our world. And I'm gonna talk about this from a service perspective. Oftentimes, a customer's interaction with us can be any company, it can be painful. I mean, think about just think about calling and you had mentioned, you know, you were on a call earlier today with you know, different brand. Think about that experience when you keep pushing the buttons. And you know, you get this, you know, Voice Response thing, and it's hard to get to where you want to go. And we focus on that we've looked at that. But also, you know, whether it's, you know, if it is a financial institution, say I need content, I need to onboard a new product. I just want to look at how I report things to you, are there ways that we can simplify and make those experiences better, and that goes for both the end consumer and our b2b customers. And I will tell you, you know, Rick, you You hit the nail on the head, sometimes companies, we look at these shiny objects, look at this new thing that we're going to do. But as sometimes the basic blocking and tackling, grinding out those, you know, 10 yards at a time, those first downs that make all the difference, and whether a customer wants to stay with you

Rick Denton:

You know, let's let's just end the podcast here. I'm going to edit it to where all we do is just have this last two minutes. That's all we're going to have available, folks, you're just going to hear that 2023 is the your process and customer experience. And Jeff, you're absolutely right, we just get the first downs I quit trying to throw the it's exciting. I would love it with CD lamb, I'm gonna use a Cowboys reference would catch the 80 yard pass for a touchdown. But I also really like him and Tony Pollard knocks out a four yard run to get a first down knowing that we get to stay on the field for a little bit longer. And yes, I probably just lost half or more of my listener base now that they know I'm a Cowboys fan. But at least it's a global podcast. So here I'm gonna offend the other half. I'm a Chelsea supporter. So there if you don't like Chelsea, then you really you really hate everything. Jeff, I want to close out with a question that's more talking about the industry in general. The it is an industry that has been still is primarily dominated by the big players, the big names that we know, but there are a lot of new entrants into the payment space, a lot of new options, and even some of those that aren't all that new anymore. They become sort of standard. So how are you evolving customer experience to address all of these new industry entrants?

Jeff Krogman:

So it's interesting to me that you're right, number one, that there are all these new industry entrants and and you look at some of these, and we've chosen many cases to partner because we have built we've built something really great. It's been around for 50 plus years. And it works. And when you when you talk about payments, some tried to replicate and they find it's actually hard to do. So you know the best scenario in most cases or in many cases is is a partnership model. So we do look at we do look at that. But I will tell you, we have made an acquisition in the Nordics and this acquisition should have 11 million people between Norway and Denmark. 9 million I think was it 9 million of those people that live there use this product for the air palace. So it becomes part of critical infrastructure. Right? It's it's, it's there Yeah, me is based on an annual Seville pay solution. And the idea to make and I've heard this and I love this making Bill Pay cross border bill pay as easy as texting. That is a that is a that is a vision that is a, an aspiration. But it's absolutely something that we want to do and how we interact. You know, let's face it, if some customer has a question about a bill, that may be how we may handle that one way, if a customer says, Listen, I can't get this processed, my end consumer can't make this bill payment as a very different customer interaction. And how we treat those with urgency, it makes a big difference. So we are truly trying to tailor and look at how we not only structure ourselves, but how we interact with the different types of entities that we partner with or that we acquire, to make sure that they're really truly getting, you know, the best of us, and the best experience possible with MasterCard, because I'm telling you the experience, service, etc. matters as much as anything else, if not more.

Rick Denton:

Let's end it right there. That's awesome. That's absolutely awesome. I love the idea of spirit of partnership as these interests are coming in. But the idea of the service experience being the epicenter of it speaks very truly to everything I believe, Jeff, if folks wanted to get to know a little bit more about you, your approach to customer experience, your approach to the customer in general, even understanding the MasterCard offering that you can speak to what's the best way for folks to learn more.

Jeff Krogman:

You know, I think that, you know, I, I'm always welcome and welcome that, you know, I'd say, I am open to people linking in with me, I'm open to people even email me. And, you know, depending I mean, I have, you know, limited time, but I always try to make time for this and, and I do believe it's important to talk across at the industry and and with other entities around, you know, how they experience and what do they do and what's their approach, because I'm a believer that, you know, we can all learn from from one another. And in truly if we have kind of the heart of the customer, top of mind and and central to what we do. It's a benefit to all

Rick Denton:

of us, Oh, definitely get the LinkedIn URL for LinkedIn in the shownotes scroll down, you'll be able to see, Jeff, I have absolutely enjoyed this conversation. I'm so glad that I was able to drop that you brought in some football references, and I was able to follow along with those. But that spirit that focus and it's true, it doesn't matter what the label of the team is, or whether it's direct customer, indirect customer, it's all about advancing that customer ball down the field, if you will, and improving that service experience. I love what you shared with us. And I certainly love the the willingness to learn from others ideas and share that back and forth. That's the spirit of CX passport and a podcast in general. And thank you for coming on the show and sharing your wisdom with the wider CX passport author, audience. Jeff, thanks for being on the show.

Jeff Krogman:

Rick, I really, you know, it's been really a pleasure getting to know you and I appreciate the offer and it was my pleasure to be here today.

Rick Denton:

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. If you liked today’s episode I have 3 quick next steps for you Click subscribe on the CX Passport youtube channel or your favorite podcast app Next leave a comment below the video or a review in your favorite podcast app so others can find and and enjoy CX Passport too Then, head over to cxpassport.com website for show notes and resources that can help you create tangible business results by delivering great customer experience. Until next time, I’m Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.