The one with the core principles - Neal Berg CX Strategist at Evolve Partners E195

🎤🎞️CX evolves AND the core stays the same “The one with the core principles” with Neal Berg CX Strategist at Evolve Partners in CX Passport Episode 195🎧 What’s in the episode?...

CHAPTERS

0:00 Introduction to Neal Berg and CX Expertise

2:02 Gaining Buy-In for CX in Large Organizations

5:00 Adapting CX for Global Brand Perceptions

8:06 Making Strategic Choices in CX by Region

10:34 Future-Proofing Business with Agility

13:49 Core Principles of CX in Modern Business

17:07 The Power of Storytelling in Customer Experience

19:15 1st Class Lounge

26:01 Applying CX to Service Providers Without a Department

29:30 Success Story: CX Transformation at K Jewelers

32:08 How to Connect with Neal Berg for CX Insights

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I'm Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport

Episode resources:

Neal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nealberg/

Transcript

Neal Berg: 0:00

Leverage storytelling in a way to get alignment, to sell a vision within a day. You can't sell a big vision, CX with 50 bullet points or PowerPoint pages, because a list of capabilities is not a story,

Rick Denton: 0:15

customer experience, wisdom, a dash of travel talk. We've been cleared for takeoff. The best meals are served outside and require passport. Hey, welcome aboard CX passport. Travelers. Today, we get a chance to talk with Neil Berg, a global CX strategist and founder of Evolve partners. Neil knows customer experience transformation, especially blending this UX design with strategic storytelling to elevate brands with over 25 years of experience, Neil has led impactful customer experience initiatives for Fortune 100 companies like IBM AT and T Honeywell, brands, you know, driving major gains in customer loyalty and revenue out of all partners, Neil now helps clients build customer centric cultures and develop future ready business models. His focus on connecting storytelling with CX and UX makes Neil's approach both innovative and results driven. Notice that word storytelling, it's a key part of who Neil is and how he creates value. I want to learn more about that today, Neil, welcome to CX passport.

Neal Berg: 1:22

Thank you for having me, Rick.

Rick Denton: 1:23

It's going to be a good, good chat today. Now, listeners, I apologize for the gravelly voice. Neil knows this. I am in the backside of a head cold, so we're going to we're going to get through this together. If you've ever traveled on a plane when you weren't feeling so good, it's kind of like that. But it doesn't matter. We're still going to have a great conversation today, just Apologies in advance for the voice. Neil, I mentioned those big company names in your experience, fortune, 50 type names. Those can be really hard challenges for any initiative, and especially for customer experience ideas. How do you gain the buy in for customer experience, and specifically a voice of the customer program at a place like those.

Neal Berg: 2:03

Yeah, it is challenging. I mean, particularly the larger the brand, the bigger the complexity and dimensions and dynamics are involved with leadership, changing and business conditions. So, yeah, so large brands really do have to navigate, you know, really big, you know, challenges over time. I mean, a good example with When was I was at t they are really focused on brand marketing and CX was not as much of a priority. They didn't do as much investment in that area. But the more we showed them, you know, how customer centricity and voice a customer really impacted how they're perceived in the marketplace. It did help them make, you know, better decisions around CX. So, so it is a it is a very intense sort of environment, particularly when you're working with global markets as well, because then you can have brand perception be very different in Asia. That could be very different than North America or Europe too. Oh

Rick Denton: 3:05

yeah, let's actually, there's two themes in there that I want to actually pull on a little bit. And that is, well, threads, themes. We're just going to pull on anything here today, because you've got some good ideas going there. One is, you said, show them, tell them how this would affect that brand, the brand perception. And imagine brand perception is one thing, and then tangible business results is another thing. How did you walk them through that? And then I'm going to circle back to that global aspect. But how did you walk them through that? That if you do this, you're going to get this brand perception, and that is then going to create this business value, this tangible result.

Neal Berg: 3:41

Well, it does take time. And one of the I guess, key factors is you really have to have conversations across the organization, because different leaders are going to have different objectives, both personally and professionally and even for their business group. So when I think one of the sort of powers of storytelling is you can shift the emphasis to make it relevant to a specific stakeholder or executive, and it really is key that they are in sort of bought in, and they see their success in the story, as opposed to being a story that's happening apart or isn't relevant to how they perform or need to invest. So I think one of the key aspects of that is really making sure that you're telling a story that eventually will unify, you know, sort of the company perspective, but really making it, you know, tangible for a specific business leader. Okay, whether and they, one business leader might be focused more on business KPIs and revenue, another might be more focused on NPS or customer sentiment. So so it really takes a kind of craft. It really stakeholdering and being kind of a deep listener to really understand what's driving them. So you can really help, you know, build that into the. Story,

Rick Denton: 5:00

and what I'm hearing, it's almost a hey, CX person, do the things that you're telling others to do, and that is, in this case, listen to your customer, know what they want, that being the executive, and adjust your approach, not with deception, but rather with emphasis, and push the information that would be most impactful to what they're seeking. Let's go to that global side of it. When we're talking about brands like that, you're right. It is around the globe, and there are different perceptions, different expectations. How did you navigate those waters in those brands when it comes to ultimately, it's a business result that's being sought, even if the customer is different in all of these different regions of the world. Yeah,

Neal Berg: 5:41

great example. I had a lot of exposure that was with with Honeywell, where I helped launch a global B to B commerce platform, and I did all of the research and a lot of the UX strategy behind it. And one of the things that was really interesting is they were really starting with North America and Europe is that Honeywell is fairly well regarded as a brand in, you know, most of their products for building automation is the area that the group that I was win, and it is fairly highly regarded. And they're sort of the Mercedes of, you know, some, some of their types of products that they that they specialize in. But that's not such the case in Asia, they are much more competitive. There's other brands in those markets that Honeywell is not as highly regarded. And so one of the things that we did when we did research around understanding buyers in the Asian and Chinese market specifically, is that they have very different drivers of what is going to be make their, you know, make them a good customer, or help them understand how to make it easy, to get the products, and so forth and so. So there was a balancing of really understanding how, you know, you a large brand can't necessarily be hitting it, you know, on all continents, let's say there's a lot of factors. And particularly doing business in China is also very challenging too. So you have a lot more regulatory, you know, sort of areas that you have to be compliant in and so forth. So it's challenging enough. But then when that shifts by region and by country, you know, the brand perception can get take a big hit because, you know, you can't necessarily address all the customer friction points for each of those respective territories or countries. So it is a sort of, and it's something too it has to the leadership has to decide, okay, where do we want to place our bets? Yeah, you know, where. Where's our biggest, you know, revenue truck, you know, sort of

Your CX Passport Captain: 7:39

This is your captain speaking. I want markets. And so to thank you for listening to CX Passport today. We’ve now reached our cruising altitude so I’ll turn that seatbelt sign off. <ding> While you’re getting comfortable, hit that Follow or Subscribe button in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. I’d love it if you’d tell a friend about CX Passport and leave a review so that others can discover the show as well. Now, sit back and enjoy the rest of the episode.

Rick Denton: 8:07

that's an important point for us to emphasize. And you know, listeners, viewers, if y'all agree with this, grab this out, share it with somebody you think that needs to hear this point at timestamp it and let them know. Neil, you're saying something that's almost slightly counter cultural to this, those of us in the CX world, and that is, hey, you know what? You can't do everything, and maybe you aren't going to win the customer in this region. Maybe you aren't going to and making those, those choices means that, yeah, you might maybe not as exaggerated as I'm about to say, but leave some customers behind. Did you find that, even if not specifically at Honeywell or anything like else, sort of philosophically challenging, that, hey, we just can't prioritize this customer base, because we need to focus on this customer base. Yeah.

Neal Berg: 8:56

I mean, that does happen, particularly where, like in I go back to Honeywell again that they really looked at who their biggest, I guess, revenue sources were. And they really, they made a executive decision to really focus on those top there's literally, like eight companies was like 80% of the revenue was interesting, and they and so they decided, really, they would give sort of more of a white glove or a larger account team to those companies. And the the longer tail companies would really be relegated to self service only, or they would, you know, so they had, they made decisions like that, but they tried to, we definitely looked at how best to make even those long tail experiences feel easy and seamless. Yeah, you weren't trying

Rick Denton: 9:46

to just piss off customers, right? It wasn't, you know, how can we anger this other tail? And that's the thing that I think a lot of us that came into the CX world come with kind of that heart, that empathy, that softer side of that that, and that may have been what has Dan. Manage the CX brand to some degree in the recent past, is that not focused on business rules. This is a great example of No, honest to God. Those are these are our best customers. This is where the revenue is. We're a for profit, for business. For profit, business. This is what we're going after. I love it. I could spend the whole episode talking about this, because now you got me all riled up, but I gotta switch that. I want to talk about something that I mentioned in the intro, but it's something I saw in your bio. You talk about future proofing of business, and I guarantee Kodak and blockbuster really thought that they were future proof. So how are you actually helping businesses future proof for real? Yeah,

Neal Berg: 10:35

and that's been a challenge, I would say, threaded throughout my whole career in doing CX the last 25 years, is, is there is sort of this sense that there's some going to be some kind of magic playbook or bullet. And the truth is, is, it's shifting every year, I mean, and now that we have AI in the mix, that's another, you know, sort of variant. But, yeah, but one of the biggest, I guess, kind of factors that I look at is, you know, just embracing agility, you know, sort of, sort of the sense that the organization really has to always keep an open mind and be open to what the data is telling them, you know, and and really, and if they're not already customer centric now they need to be, because we know, you know, from, I mean, I've been preaching this for over 1015, years, is that there really are no unique products in the marketplace by experience today. And so I think some companies or some visionaries haven't quite got that memo that maybe they do have a good idea, but there's very few truly commoditized products or services today there. It's all about everybody delivering essentially, mostly the same thing, but how they deliver it, and how and that sort of engagement, level and depth of emotional connection with with customers, but, but I think, you know, as and I've seen CX evolve from build helping companies, corporate companies build their first websites in the early aughts, to embracing multi channel, mobile, yeah, and now we have chat bots and all sorts. It just seems the technology keeps evolving and emerging. And so you just have to have build a culture like I said, that's, that's agile enough to really be open to, you know, trying these new things and being, you know, seeing, going kind of with, floating with the kind of the weeds in the marketplace, yeah.

Rick Denton: 12:33

And so that agility, you know, what came to mind when you're saying there's, there probably are no new products out there, is the idea of the number of keys on a piano haven't changed, the number of chords that exist in music hasn't changed. And yet, there's an incredible rich source of ever evolving music. And I think of that as sort of the same vein, that maybe the products are the same, the needs or the customers, they might kind of change that sort of stuff. And I realize nothing's as binary, as pure as what we're saying. And yet, there's so much that you can do to affect the experience around it and create a different song around that product, create a different memory for the customer that makes them want whatever it is you're delivering. Okay, so you talked about that evolution and the like, and there has been that evolution that you're describing. Yet, aside from the agility part of it, because you have to be changing so much of it has stayed the same. You mentioned a playbook that you wrote with Diane majors, which long time listeners know she was episode 10 y'all on CX passport. But these core principles, these bedrock never changing principles of customer experience you wrote about in that playbook years ago. How are you blending both that legacy CX principles with the new evolutions, the agility to then create the value that businesses need today?

Neal Berg: 13:50

Yep, so, and that was Diane and I go back to working. We met each other at at&t, and one of the things that we found she was, I was kind of at this corporate brand design level, and really trying to bring in, you know, design and UX as a culture, and we introduced design thinking and journey mapping as a as a, we actually created a curriculum, and after we kind of trained them in a full day immersion, well, how do you actually, you know, You sometimes when you learn something, and you go back to your, you know, regular jobs like, Hmm, what, how do I

Rick Denton: 14:26

do? That was fun. What do I do now

Neal Berg: 14:29

my boss and actually make this happen. And so we actually kind of created a What to do now, kind of okay, now that you understand what, what journey mapping, and some of these, you know, voc is, how do you actually engage with your team to actually make it happen? And, and, you know, and it really goes back to, you know, some of the basics. You need some type of an executive sponsor that says, I see this is a problem. And, and if you have, don't have one, it's gonna be very difficult to get your, your, you know, to. Stakeholder and network and get any kind of ground wave to actually take action. And then you need passionate players that also want to solve this problem. And so we kind of help them through. And then really, kind of the if you have the data that can really help drive the story, you know, Voice of Customer, or even, we actually got a number of design sprints, we actually had customers actually in our design thinking workshops. So, you know, as we're doing empathy mapping, we could say, hey, let's ask the customer. They're standing right here. So we try to introduce ways for them to make it a much more dynamic way to work. And it's funny, I we I never forget, there's a number of people that that, after they kind of learn, you know, some of these techniques and approaches, and they were just worried, are we going to be allowed to do this fun? It was like they had to go, wow, does this? Is this something that our leaders want us to do? They weren't sure about that. So

Rick Denton: 15:57

even well, especially when you say a phrase like, you know, talk to your customer. They're right there to us. It's like, Well, duh. And then when this is first coming out, it's sort of a Well, are we allowed to

Neal Berg: 16:09

Yeah, yeah. And there's some, there's some, you know, as every company you know, account managers get real possessive of you can't talk to my customer, so yeah. So you have to sometimes break those barriers down. There's a lot of, you know, they're worried that the customer might say something that you know is not, you know, flattering to their service quality or something, but that's how you that's how you have to. I think if you can build that customer centricity culture where it's okay to have small failures so you can overcome them. I think there's still this culture of like, I have to do everything perfect, everything right, but it things are changing. It's if that's an impossible task today with, you know, so many different emerging technologies and trends happening. So I think building that sort of safety zone that it's okay to rethink what, what's happening and listen to your customer, and, you know, maybe make different choices, you know, based on what you hear. So you are

Rick Denton: 17:07

a big storyteller. That's something that you have said, or at least, you know, it's a part of your brand. This is, I think, the impact of storytelling. What is it about storytelling that draws your focus now?

Neal Berg: 17:20

So I think storytelling is such a powerful sort of tool, because it really, I mean, let's and then a day and we would talk about, you know, sort of ancient sort of truths. I mean, we humans are adapt, that we've evolved through storytelling through 1000s of years. So it's almost like it's, it is so in our DNA, so kind of using that as a basis to really tell, you know, technology and emerging customer stories is a natural thing, because people want, already want to hear a story. So in a way, you don't have to force someone a story is already something. You know, as you grow up as a child, you're used to storytelling. So, so I think when you can sort of leverage storytelling in a way to get alignment, to sell a vision, at the end of day, you can't sell a a big vision, CX with a bunch like 50 bullet points or PowerPoint templates or pages where you're outlining all these capabilities, because a list of capabilities is not a story. And really, if you can tie a story, can really tie it back to the emotion, which is, to me, the big the heartbeat of any CX strategy is, if it's not grounded in understanding how you're connecting emotionally, then it's really, there's really no basis for how you're going to improve or move the sort of the, I guess, success forward. So business success relies on customer experience, and that the sort of the DNA of customer experience is emotion. So, so, so everybody you know can align to when they hear a customer's not happy, but there's a pain point that can be resolved. That is something I think everybody has a natural tendency to want to solve for.

Rick Denton: 19:15

Neil, I want to let's do a little storytelling here. It's a little fact finding a little storytelling as well. But I want to ask you to join me here in the first class lounge. We'll move quickly here and have a little bit of fun. What is a dream travel location from your past?

Neal Berg: 19:30

So a dream travel location I went to, oh, when I was turned nearly 40, was Egypt. That was something I had dreamed of in grade school and all my book reports, yeah, all the things that you do is you're going up and building models and so forth. And I had always dreamed of going to Egypt, and so finally, in my I had, I'd never been across to Europe until I went. I was actually in my late 30s, 394, Me, and I started with Egypt, and it was on my wildest dreams. I spent two weeks there. I was on a tour that was really specialized, but it was one of the most amazing travel sort of dreams crew trips I've ever done, well, a spectacular

Rick Denton: 20:16

destination in and of itself, as you said, yet it's very rare that I hear that that's the first trip for a Western Hemisphere person like you and me to cross the pond and go to Egypt. There's so many more. You know, air quote here, for those that aren't listening or just listening, accessible countries, what a great place to start. It sounds like you've got that sense of adventure in you. What is a dream travel location you've not been to yet?

Neal Berg: 20:38

I mean, I've been to almost every continent, with the exception of Africa and South America. Okay, South America would be one. There's probably multiple countries in South America. I'd love to go to Argentina, Peru that so that's, that's a whole continent that someday I hope to get to. There's, yeah, many, many trips that would be really interesting down there?

Rick Denton: 21:01

Yeah, it is. It is nice to think of the continents and checking them off the list, I've got two that I still have yet to hit, and I definitely will, God willing, do before, before I leave this this mortal coil, what is a favorite thing of yours to eat?

Neal Berg: 21:16

Pretty much grilled anything. I love grilling and but seafood. Particularly, I love grilled seafood, salmon, fish, things like that, so that. So it's always the I do most of the cooking in my house. So I'm I'm the designated cook for my family. So filling is always relatively easy, and now everybody loves it so and

Rick Denton: 21:38

not only is it tasty, it's usually easier than you think it is, and the cleanup is awesome. All right, let's go the other direction. What is something that you were forced to eat growing up, but you hated as a kid?

Neal Berg: 21:53

Well, I had an interesting childhood. I was in a military family, and we lived in Taiwan when I was, like, in grade school, and there were times that, you we'd be out, you know, you'd have to go out to dinner or go to some function. And I had no idea what the food was, table of food and, and I remember, I guess, there was just, there's lots of things that I just, you know, things like tofu, which wasn't even introduced to America back in that time, or or, you know, uses of eggplant and so forth. So I had a lot of food challenges, but my father insisted that you have to take one bite, and if you don't like it, then that's it. But he always said you need to at least try one bite. And then he was right sometimes you'll be like, Wow, that actually tastes good. Don't just judge it by its visual appeal,

Rick Denton: 22:47

especially when you're in a country and a culture that is not kind of what you're most accustomed to. Yeah, some of those things look real odd, but if you're willing to go ahead and then take that first bite, yeah, you find something there. But I could, as a Western kid, I imagine that the Asian foods could be somewhat challenging. I can see that we're gonna have to exit the lounge here. Neil, what is one travel item, not including your phone, not including your passport, that you will not leave home without

Neal Berg: 23:13

eye blinders. I found those, those when I go on a plane or if I need to get sleep in a place where there's where there's a lot of light that helps me. That's one thing I always keep close to close to my sort of personal items.

Rick Denton: 23:38

Neil, so I mentioned you have started this new consulting company, which is exciting in and of itself. You also told me that you're doing this in tandem with your spouse, and I, too, am actually newly working on a business with my wife. It's been valuable and entertaining and challenging at times. How has this experience of working with your spouse been for you?

Neal Berg: 23:58

Yeah, it's been. It's been a real fun exploration, I have to be honest, it was a little tense at first, because we've been working together on and off, probably for some projects, you know, for many years, but but more recently, it's been really, actually working quite well. She has a deep expertise, expertise in growth strategy, and her specialty is professional service firms. So she's actually an expert, sort of recognized in that industry, particularly in accounting and the Financial Services area. And I She's, she's amazing in front of her clients. And so in a way, I'm able to not necessarily have to be the industry expert and really bring in CX strategy and a lot of the tools for helping evolve those top companies, and it's really starting to gel really nicely. So we're really starting to build build our sort of chemistry in a new way beyond our marriage and having raised up two kids. Yeah.

Rick Denton: 25:00

You mentioned that that kind of evolving and figuring it out my wife are doing something similar there. And there was a phrase I heard. I was listening to an episode, an old episode of smartless today, and Jason Bateman was describing creative negotiation. And I thought, yes, that is not not negotiating creatively, but rather, when you're dealing with something, a creative a concept, a strategy, a tactic, how do you negotiate that with the spouse? And you find creative ways to handle that that are different than just the traditional relationship conflicts that exist because you're talking about business together, you have been focusing on a very particular area, or mention one to me in the context of voice of the customer, and it's service providers, and we don't think of this often, but it's out there, law firms, medical practices, HVAC, plumbing, others in that space, providing services. What's unique about those areas that are drawing your focus there? How does storytelling take place in those arenas?

Neal Berg: 26:01

Well, this is an area in the business that they are still operating kind of on the way they've always done business for 4050, years. And with the you know, changes in market, they have not had as much impact to how they do their work and how they build relationships. But now with new technologies, even training how they recruit new employees, a lot of the younger people, they younger practitioners, want to actually embrace these new tools. And a lot of the older sort of partners in these firms are like, Well, hey, we didn't need that in my day. So why do I need it now? But they're realizing they're missing out on a lot of talent and so and in addition, they're also missing out on growing their practices because they're there. There are other firms that are embracing change and building that experience at a much more emotional level with their customers that they have now they've come to realize that not all of them, but some of them are starting to realize that they need to, you know, leverage some of these tools. It's not, it's not like they can't just live in a vacuum because, you know, they know that their customers are Amazon customers, or, you know, name another brand that's using technology, they they are encountering those same type of experiences, and if they're not embracing they're going to look out of step. And so, so that's really kind of a new frontier that we've been kind of looking at how helping not only understand the difference between a service engagement versus a experience engagement, and really determining one is just transactional, whereas the other is actually building a emotional connection with a customer or a client, and it's good. So in the service industry, they call them clients, not customers, right, right? So, but, but that. But by doing this, we're actually also training people within these companies to really elevate their understanding of what client experience is, how to activate it. And so a lot of in a lot of cases, they're not really building CX departments, per se, but they're really leveraging, building, bringing CX into their organization, and just needing guidance on how to do it as efficiently as possible.

Rick Denton: 28:22

Yeah, and I think that's an important point in the sense that this does, like you said, doesn't require a CX department. I think there are both large companies and also, in this case, smaller companies, that would look at that guy, well, I I can't do that. I don't want to create this formal overhead, this formal structure, as opposed to No, these are principles. These aren't organizational bodies. They can be. They don't have to be organizational entities. It is principles around understanding the customer, acting on it, and then getting the tangible business value out of that. Neil, we're coming close the end of time here. I actually want to ask you to close out with a story, and it is a story that I don't know yet, because I'm Wait, I'm asking you this very much off the cuff, thinking back to a company that was struggling with the buy in on these companies, this concept of customer experience. So it could be the HVAC ones, it could be back at Honeywell. It could be any of that. What's a story that really stood out to you as far as a company that made that evolution from I don't really care about that customer stuff, to fully embracing it, and this is where we're getting monster business value out of

Neal Berg: 29:30

this. One of my probably biggest success stories that when I was at IBM is I actually was hired to lead a transformation of K jewelers, which is the sort of the consumer small website, yeah, retailer rather than and they needed to re overhaul their website. And they did. They had had number of redesign, number of agencies had already built all these, these sites to them, but they were not getting any. Conversion rate, and they couldn't understand why. And so one of the the goals was to, like a understand why, but they, what they're what they were struggling with was they have this incredible in store experience. When someone comes in their store, they have this whole approach for how they help, you know, men, you know, buy an engagement ring and things like that, and but the website was devoid of any of that, okay? And so we really kind of looked at, well, why? How could we bring some of that in store experience into a digital experience, even if it's smaller? And one thing is that we discovered is that they offer financing, because a lot of times when you when you when in the engagement ring purchasing process, usually for men that have never done this, and they're getting, you know, they're, oh my god, they see, you know, how much, how much. Yeah, right, exactly, and, and one of the things that we made an observation of is because they actually provide financing. And we learned this by observing in the store, kind of doing, kind of contextual observation, of seeing how they engage with customers that they eased that whole experience by really telling them, oh, well, hey, that's only this. This ring is this much per month versus the large amount that you'll pay over three or four years or five years. And we said, Well, why wouldn't you do that online? And so we created a prototype of showing prices by month, and we test it with customers. They were like, oh my god, this is completely changed. How they were looking at both for women as well, looking at jewelry for their own personal use. And this was a huge game changer for them. They we did the design work one summer, and then their Christmas holiday shopping, they increased sales by over 40% year over year, just because of some of the changes, not only to the, you know, showing pricing of my finance, but also the redesign and streamlining of how they found found products. So that just kind of, I guess it's a story of just showing how the a lot of the answers are going to come from your customers. You just have to unlock them.

Rick Denton: 32:08

I mean, you this almost encapsulates everything that I want to preach when it comes to customer experience, and that is, listen to your customers, act on what they tell you, receive the tangible business value that comes from that, and you right in there. You got all three. Neil, this has been a fun conversation. If folks wanted to get to know a little bit more about you, your approach to customer experience, evolve consulting, what would be the best way for them to get in touch?

Neal Berg: 32:33

Yeah, I think the best. Just contact me on LinkedIn. You can find me. We do have a evolve partners website, but all that could be found on my LinkedIn profile. But love to talk to you, and if you know, if anybody's interested in storytelling, I do have sort of a one day immersion offering that I'm launching out this year. So cool. Well, I will

Rick Denton: 32:53

get your LinkedIn profile there. You know the drill. Listeners, your scroll down, click it, you've got direct access to Neil. Neil, it has been a delight having this conversation with you, understanding the storytelling aspect of it, understanding the foundational portions of customer experience and the evolution, the agility that needs to exist. Neil, thank you for being on CX passport.

Neal Berg: 33:15

Well, thank you for having me, Rick, it's really a pleasure. And look forward to staying in touch. You. Day.

Rick Denton: 33:25

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. If you liked today’s episode I have 3 quick next steps for you Click subscribe on the CX Passport youtube channel or your favorite podcast app Next leave a comment below the video or a review in your favorite podcast app so others can find and and enjoy CX Passport too Then, head over to cxpassport.com website for show notes and resources that can help you create tangible business results by delivering great customer experience. Until next time, I’m Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.