The one with elephant level emotional intelligence – Sandra Thompson, Founder Ei Evolution E129

🎤🎞️The one with elephant level emotional intelligence – with Sandra Thompson, Founder of Ei Evolution in CX Passport E129🎧 What’s in the episode?...

[00:00] Introduction

[02:09] How Sandra first got into emotional intelligence

[05:35] The theoretical versus practical aspect of EI

[11:10] An example of customer experience that needed a great level of EI

[18:54] Keeping the humanity aspect of customer experience and the service design

[23:40] 1st Class Business Lounge

[28:16] If you want to grow your EI skills, where do you get started?

[32:01] How to help foster growth of EI in your own team

[36:17] Contact info and closing

If you like CX Passport, I have 3 quick requests:

✅Subscribe to the CX Passport YouTube channel youtube.com/@cxpassport

✅Join other “CX travelers” with the weekly CX Passport newsletter www.cxpassport.com

✅Accelerate business growth📈 by improving customer experience www.ex4cx.com/services

Hosted by Rick Denton “I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport”

Episode resources:

Website:  www.eievolution.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cxeisandra/
Emotional Intelligence 2.0 (where you get the code and can measure your existing Ei levels): https://www.amazon.co.uk/Emotional-Intelligence-2-0-Travis-Bradberry/dp/0974320625 

The Emotional Culture deck: https://www.ridersandelephants.com/the-emotional-culture-deck

Transcript

Sandra Thompson: 0:00

When we don't feel properly heard or understood, it sets us off.

Rick Denton: 0:12

You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode we’ll talk with our guests about great CX, travel...and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. Elephants, yeah, elephants. I bet you didn't expect that as the first word today. Elephants fascinate many of us. Along with the visual impact of an elephant their social structures, their emotional capabilities amaze humans as we watch their behavior. Many of us humans could learn a thing or two from the emotional depth of the elephant world. I think today's guests would agree as we are joined by SANDRA THOMPSON, director of the Ei evolution, ei say, emotional intelligence. Inspired by her book 20 years ago, Sandra dove deep into the world of AI moving from theory to actively helping businesses and individuals grasp what it means to be human. On the surface, you think we know how to be human because Well, guess what? We're human. Yet how many times have you felt like humanity is the last thing you've experienced as an employee or as a customer. Sandra believes that emotional intelligence is essential for business and personal success. She uses her skills as a coach to help people improve their emotional intelligence so that they too can be more effective in their personal and professional lives. So how do we get to that elephant level? Emotional Intelligence? Let's find out Sandra, welcome to CX Passport.

Sandra Thompson: 1:55

Thank you, Rick. It's such a delight to be here with you.

Rick Denton: 1:58

I am excited. And folks, you can tell Sandra and I are not recording from the same place in the world, we get the chance to talk to Sandra across the pond from the UK today. And I am excited about that. Indeed, you know, Sandra, you didn't necessarily start in the field of emotional intelligence, how did you come to realize the importance of AI and then really start to go deep into that world?

Sandra Thompson: 2:19

It's quite a story, in fact, and it's only when I look back and reflect on it, I realized that it was a series of interconnected events that got me to this place. I know that's always the story, isn't it, but it's actually quite fortuitous. So I started out as a marketeer, I worked for a number of years in a number of different organizations commercial and not for profits. And I was continually wanting to learn, I was very lucky, I was invited to join a master's degree. And as part of that master's degree, I needed to write a thesis. Great. When you're presented with a blank canvas, where on earth do you start? Know Absolutely. So there, I was scratching my head. And I saw on my sister's bookshelf, this thing called Emotional Intelligence, you know, this is back in, you know, 2000s, you know, the, you know, Millennium you're talking now. And I thought, Garmin, okay, we'll give it a go. I could not put that book down. It made complete sense to me, you know, something that says provocative as saying Genoa IQ might not be the answer, it might be something else. gotta read that. So that was in 2001, when I actually submitted that work. And as you absolutely nailed it in the introduction, that was all about the theory, reading about it, understanding the academic range of literature at the time, and then I put it to bed. Can you believe that? I don't know if any of your listeners have ever done a master's degree. But how you can forget doing master's degrees is quite a phenomenon in itself.

Rick Denton: 4:00

I think that's a whole separate episode.

Sandra Thompson: 4:03

Absolutely. So then fast forward to like the second phase. And this is when I was I started lecturing at a business school in central London. They invited me to write an academic paper. There it was, emotion, intelligence has got to come back. Because if I felt like I wasn't done with it, and also 20 years on, you can imagine there was so much more advancement in that area. So I wrote the academic paper. And then I thought, I've got to go and learn how to do this. No more theory, I've got to go and practice it. So I went off and I joined Daniel Goleman. And his faculty, I popped out to Vienna, over the course of a couple of years, and I learned the skill and I became a coach. Followed by that was a TEDx. And that was where I was able to apply the emotional intelligence to me remote working, and also customer experience and really from then that's where I found my niche. So I like to say I've read everything I absolutely have not. But I am still learning about what this thing is and the practice of it. It's quite extraordinary.

Rick Denton: 5:19

Let's get into that practice part of it Sandra for. First of all I want to react to a couple things that you said there one, I love the fact that you can say the sentence I popped over to Vienna, alright, for folks where I am, that's like, a bucket. Oh, I want to go to Vienna and I was popped over there. So but again, another separate episode there. But that focus on theory, like you're in the academic world, which often has that ivory tower, right? That's the term from there. And, and that theory of it, but really getting practical. And I think a lot of that, that theory is why I think EI is often viewed as the soft or kind of fluffy, it's esoteric. It's not something that actually drives good old, hard, cold business and business results. So I know you and I know that's not true. But that's a perception that's out there. So how do you help overcome that perception? How do you help explain that ei equals or better yet, I should say, equals better business results?

Sandra Thompson: 6:15

is a really interesting question. Because in the early days of doing consultancy, in this space, I didn't actually call it emotional intelligence. There's something fascinating about the term emotional, where people either get freaked out and they go running to the hills, because that would mean being vulnerable and potentially being courageous. And equally, it's not rational. And the thing is, people have a perception. And I let me say, I also had this perception that we make rational decisions. Of course, I have a list, I do the pros and cons. And of course, I'm a logical, practical thinker. I hate to tell you, everyone, 96% of the decisions we make are emotional, we just post rationalize. And so coming back to the point about it being considered a soft skill. That's really where it's, it's unfortunate that people perceive it doesn't do anything apart from get you in trouble. If you open up and you explain how you're feeling. It's seen as weak. But in actual fact, emotional intelligence is one of the hardest things to do, but has the most striking results. So let me share a few stats with you. Because this is this is. This is amazing stuff, right? Here we go. So the Royal Air Force in the United States, invested in recruiters who had emotional intelligence, they found that they were able to recruit more effectively, and bring the right people in, which in actual fact, over a one year cycle saved them $3 million to implement there. Yeah, that's, that's one, I haven't finished it wait for this. We've also got productivity. Now we know that the essence of engagement where people feel connected, where they feel a sense of belonging, they're more productive, they get into the zone, everything's in flow. It's been proven that people with emotional intelligence are at least 12 times more productive than those without the skill. Imagine your workforce being more adaptive, that's gonna leave the competition behind.

Rick Denton: 8:39

We're not talking about soft, fluffy things when you're talking about $3 million and X percentage of more productivity, that's stunning, Sandra, that I knew I believed it in my heart. I don't know that I knew those numbers that you're describing. Why do you think that perception continues to exist in the face of such obvious business results that you're describing?

Sandra Thompson: 9:00

Because it's not easy to do? It's not it's not. It's not the quick fix. It's not the immediate result. It's the medium to long term investment. And let's face it, we want quick wins. But bubba? Of course, exactly. And your point, you're you're very subtle point earlier as well about building on emotional intelligence. The fact is that within your workforce, whether you're even yourselves will have a certain level of it. The extent to which you enhance it means you might get there sooner, but there are also those that might be lagging behind because they haven't got a clue with self awareness. But it is a long game and you have to commit to it. You have to practice these skills in order to unlearn and be more naturally able to do things that give you better connection with other humans. And that's why I think there's an excuse Stop addicts. Oh, no. It's soft. Widow. What do they need flaky stuff. It's all fluffy. No, it's not.

Rick Denton: 10:08

I laugh and I pause because I want I want to absorb what you just said, I want listeners, I want you to absorb that. Because so true that perception and I love how you're calling out that look as perception because it's just it's hard. And we want to avoid it and use excuses that it's an it doesn't count. It's anything like that. I want to get in later in the show. Actually, I want to ask you a little more practical about how we can build that right? And if the assumption is that it is something that can be built, right, there's an assumption there. But let's go with that assumption. How do we do that, but let's talk about that later. Because I want to call out, you and I met over a particular story classic LinkedIn example, you posted something, it tickled my interest. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, Sandra, tell me more about that. And you are in the midst of a really, really poor customer experience. In fact, you kind of teased it, you didn't tell us what it was, I was like, Oh, I can't wait here. Well, what was that? Like? I'd love to share that story. But more importantly, I'd like you to explain what would it have been like, had the customer experience involve a greater level of emotional intelligence on the part of the company than what you actually experienced?

Sandra Thompson: 11:09

To start off with, I committed to a particular brand, because I perceived that the quality of the product and the quality of the service would be exceptional. So everything about their marketing, their price point, everything was suggesting to me that I could rely on this company. So that's the first thing is really important to think about our expectations, what we're expecting to happen. And then the second part is around the reliability. And what I mean by that is, we buy things all the time. But ultimately, when we're making a purchase that is, we really need that thing we are depending upon that thing, in order to get on with our lives and to continue to operate. So the short of it is I had ordered a bed, I needed the bed because I didn't have something to sleep on. When I moved back, it was real practical. Let's get real practical here. So when so so when the organization I was dealing with, seemed quite nonchalant and disinterested, and was putting the onus on me to solve the problem, and had zero understanding of the consequence of their mistake. You can imagine it can't you fear, threat, anger, being let down. They haven't got my back. And worse still, what was it going to do? I had to go and stay in a hotel for a number of days, because I didn't have a bed to sleep on. And when I explained to them, Do you honestly want to have a woman in her 50s sleeping on the floor. I did that when I was in my teens, after parties, but I'm a bit to work for it. So So coming back to your question about how would it have been different? Imagine this, imagine, because I've actually told them, I'm moving back to my flat, I don't have a bed. So they have that information, they could have come back and said we understand that this is a priority for you. We understand how important this is, we're going to make sure that we deliver exactly when you need it because we know that your life is busy. And here is an x y Zed to help you on your way. So number one, they have understood my predicament they've used relatable and connecting language, they have taken responsibility and accountability. And I won't be let down I can carry on with my life, my busy life without having to make ulterior plans, because they've let me down and and it's as significant as someone telling you some fibs and then leaving you it's a bit like leaving you out in the car lot to try and find your own way home. It's that emotionally it's that significant. So I was writing about this on LinkedIn, as you mentioned, and I wrote about it because I was let down and disappointed and I wanted to invite the community on LinkedIn to share what their experiences have been and what organizations can do to prevent this from happening. What I experienced was a wave of compassion and understanding. And a number of people who came forward to say, they just weren't listening were they? And in our organization, we listen very intently to all of the little breadcrumbs that get left. We ask a few more questions with those breadcrumbs to get to even more insight. And we do our very best but here's the thing. If we're not able to do that, then some organizations can Aren't delivered to their promises, they would have the courage to be able to say, on this particular occasion, we know that you've ordered this. We're not going to be able to deliver. But we've been proactive. And here's another bed, which no one else has slept on, it's fine. Have that while yours arrives. There's no excuse for it.

Your CX Passport Captain: 15:21

This is your captain speaking. I want to thank you for listening to CX Passport today. We’ve now reached our cruising altitude so I’ll turn that seatbelt sign off. <ding> While you’re getting comfortable, hit that Follow or Subscribe button in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. I’d love it if you’d tell a friend about CX Passport and leave a review so that others can discover the show as well. Now, sit back and enjoy the rest of the episode.

Rick Denton: 15:47

There is no excuse for that. And I'm thinking about it. Like that brand promise aspect that you're describing. You're not talking about, oh, I don't know what the equivalent like grocery store level transaction here that Oh, no, my kumquat wasn't quite what I intended it to be. You're talking about a bed somewhere that we spend some cases, perhaps the majority of our life in there as compared to any other place, right? And for a brand that add that elevated brand promise to disappoint you surprises me on many levels, right. And there's ample stories of that customer experience disappointment. Your description, though of the absence of that emotional intelligence surprises me because, again, we're not talking about the kumquat example. This is something that it seems like a human would be able to understand and appreciate another human's experience there. I know, I'm asking you to get in the head of another human, another company. But why do you think that didn't happen here?

Sandra Thompson: 16:43

I think that they were so embroiled in their own operational issues that they forgot. And the surprising thing is that when I did get through to the Managing Director, because I wanted to have that conversation with him, he was equally blase about it. I expect

Rick Denton: 17:04

to see something different. Oh, my gosh, okay. Yeah. And

Sandra Thompson: 17:07

so I was I was shocked by that. And I just thought, I thought to myself, here is an example of a organization that's doing very well, a business that's doing very well, because it's his product is actually extraordinary. It's brilliant, luckily, but their operation is just winging it, because they haven't put the infrastructure in and they haven't got the empathy and the emotional intelligence to get themselves out of those knots. And that's the thing about things like productivity, about difficult conversations about dealing with conflict, they haven't invested in their infrastructure and their people, which means that it left a bad taste in my mouth.

Rick Denton: 17:52

I keep talking about I keep promising. And listeners, you're just gonna have to keep listening. But I want to get into the investing in the people part of it. But something is coming to mind to me here. Sandra, it triggered when I talked about the human aspect of this, I would have expected the human action, there's something else I have to react to. And that is, I totally am surprised by your statement that when you talk to the director that it was different. And perhaps you're you're seeing something Well, that's the organization's culture and there and that's a whole nother conversation. But when we talk about humanity, what's the topic du jour right now? Ai digital, right? That's so hot. It's all over my feet. It's all over your feet. And it's all over the conversation, right? I'm thinking about this conversation in the context of Ei, and then really the overall human aspects of service design. How are you? And I guess maybe just conceptually, but even tactically? How do you help ensure that we're keeping that humanity aspect of customer experience and the service design world? In a world that's so increasingly focused on digital?

Sandra Thompson: 18:52

Yeah, it's a great question. So I'm going to answer that question in in a number of different ways, because it's quite a, it's quite a big question. So the first thing I think, is customer experience, when you design it, and you are intentional, that is far better. We all know that. We all know that. And if you've done some really great work in insight, and you understand not just some of the basics about your customer groups, but things about their values and their beliefs, you're going to design with good intention for those customer groups. So that's great. I worry a little bit about AI on two levels. So first of all, let's let's cover the bit where I'm thinking it's it rocks. First of all, when you have a very simple request when you want to do something out of normal hours, and you can do something yourself. Knock yourself out. It's all brilliant, great, great, great, which means that it then frees up time for humans to respond to Do you complex, messy situations that require an kind of navigation of the flow of wherever that conversation is going? Human, there's a bit of neuroscience going on here. So just bear with me for a minute. There's a lady called Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett, who's a neuroscientist. She's out in Boston. And she talks about how every single individual experiences emotions differently. So we our emotions are shaped by socialization. So how we were brought up what our parents said, what our aunties, uncles, teachers, significant people around us said, what we believe to be true, the experiences we've had and our interpretation of those experiences, and here's the killer, the third thing, the context in that moment in time, so I not sure, and I'm yet to be convinced that AI has the ability to effectively be in the moment to the nuances that that very messy brain is going to show up and present to that other human. Now you're making an assumption that the human who's receiving the call from the customer has the ability to connect, that's one thing. But the second thing here is that, for example, I get on a call to a call center, I've just stubbed my toe or I've just had an argument with a 17 year old, you have absolutely no idea. How is AI going to be able to respond to that? It's not because it has no idea. Only through really sensitive, careful, thoughtful, intelligent type perception and questioning will you get to that point, the flip side so the second point here is, when we don't feel significant as a specie when we don't feel properly heard or understood. It sets us off. And what I mean by that is, there's a bit of in our brain that's really old. It's called the limbic system. It's the emotional center. And there's an amazing book called The Chimp Paradox where it talks about a chimp, imagine a chimp in the middle of your head. If you're not feeling connected, understood, significant, your expectations aren't being met. That chimp goes berserk. All right, and it means that you can't think straight your executive center isn't working. And I worry that a eyes attempt to be in place of a human is going to trigger more anger, anxiety, disappointment, frustration than a human who has the skill to properly listen. I mean, look at what happens right now, when I see that I've got a bot that has as much intelligence as my dog, and my dog is quite clever, then, then I just I just I'm not not going down that route. Because I can see mice, I can feel myself getting increasingly angry. So in summary, number one, humans are very sophisticated. And at the moment, AI doesn't meet that demand. And secondly, when it doesn't work properly, the human gets even more angry. And it's it thinks to itself, what is this company doing? You are pushing me out to this system that saving you money, you're not interested in exactly what I've got to say you're not here to solve my problem. You're here to cut costs.

Rick Denton: 23:40

Sandra, the comparison between a bot and your dog and I don't know, I might challenge you, I might say that the dog may have a little more innate intelligence than some of the bots that I've interacted with. Got some great stories out there of some bots, as we all do. Really, it certainly that that makes me chuckle to think of those two. Now. One of the things that can be nice that you talked about popping over to Vienna, but I'm sure you've had your fair share of longer travel than that and travel can be a bit of a wearing time. And to take a little break can be enjoyable. So I'm going to invite you to take that same break right here and join me here in the first class lounge we're going to have a little bit of fun and hopefully move a little bit quickly as well. So what is a dream travel location from your past?

Sandra Thompson: 24:23

I can't just say one, so I'm gonna say three really quickly. I'm gonna say Erbert in Bali. I'm going to say hi Yan in Vietnam and I'm going to say Havana in Cuba probably Havana in Cuba is the number one out of those three is that okay?

Rick Denton: 24:40

That is very okay. And you have made this American quite jealous as you know that it is either a mixture of challenging or illegal for me to travel to Cuba although there's things have softened up a bit so I always find it fascinating. What did you What did you notice in Havana that really caught your eye that made it particularly special for you?

Sandra Thompson: 24:59

This spirit of the place, you know, the energy, the music that dancing. It was kind of electric.

Rick Denton: 25:07

Oh, that's awesome. Well, I, I'm gonna have to find a way to get there. As I hear more and more of my non American colleagues telling me about how wonderful it is. What is a speaker? That's for my future? What about your future? What is a dream travel location? You've not been to yet

Sandra Thompson: 25:21

Madagascar? And it's on the list. It's on the list. It might be I might get there next year with all being well,

Rick Denton: 25:29

okay. What same question What about Madagascar? Wouldn't I? It appeals to me. But what for you? Why?

Sandra Thompson: 25:35

Because it has apparently, some of the most unique environments species. And I am not aware that it's yet been there. I say this spoilt.

Rick Denton: 25:50

Yeah, I see. Whereas you've heard of some other destinations where it? Well, we see the photos of the elephants. But if you look backwards, you see just the ring of Safari vehicles. And so I that's good to know about Madagascar. Now, maybe we should delete this out so that others don't hear what you said. What is Sandra, favorite thing to eat? A Welsh cake. I don't know what that is. Tell me

Sandra Thompson: 26:16

more. So my mom's side of the family comes from Wales. And she came to London when she was 15. But my Auntie's and my uncles or stayed in Wales, whenever I would go visit them. They would make me these little cakes. They're like, they're like very short. Scones. Okay. They are de Licious.

Rick Denton: 26:41

Oh, that sounds good. Well, as you may know, Wrexham FC has gained some notoriety in the US as they have been purchased by by famous folks and have have found themselves promoting. Now you've given me another reason to go to Wales other than seeing a Wrexham match. Now I gotta go check out these Welsh cakes. Right, that sounds fan tastic. Now I'm gonna go the other way on you. What is the thing your parents forced you to eat but you hated as a kid?

Sandra Thompson: 27:07

Tonight as a standing joke in my family. They'll say we've saved these for you sprouts. I mean, come on. Who invented those things? That absolutely disgusting. I remember growing up and thinking I'm sure I can hide this under my knife. I made sure I can do that. And I always got caught and I always had to eat them. And sorry, sorry for those sprout fans out there. But they're quite disgusting.

Rick Denton: 27:35

Well, you have found a sympathetic ear and me that's my answer to this question as well. So you and I are of a very similar spirit. Let's go back to travel and close out the lounge here. What is one travel item, not including your phone, not including your passport, that you will not leave home without.

Sandra Thompson: 27:50

So this might be another shocker. To be honest with you, Rick, it's lockable freezer bags to be able to even get into the sea and not find all of the keys and all of your money is sodden. Then lockable freezer bag inside the swimsuit, everyday is a happy day.

Rick Denton: 28:16

Well, there's nothing quite like a beach or otherwise water holiday that is ruined by sudden money or any other ideas. So yes, Sandra, that is a brilliant suggestion. I I hadn't had it on my list, but I think I need to add it. I promised you and I promised listeners that I wanted to get into the nuts and bolts of Ei as well. So let's get tactical here. Like we talked about, it's one thing to talk about the theory of it. But if someone listening wants to grow their ei skills, how do they get started? What does an EI improvement journey look like?

Sandra Thompson: 28:49

One thing they could do is read a book called Emotional Intelligence. 2.0 is by a gentleman called Travis Bradbury. And the amazing thing about this little book is that it comes with a code at the back, you go online, you put the code in, you do a test, which will tell you how emotionally intelligent you are. And it will invite you to scale where you'd like to get to. And then it personalizes a number of exercises for you. Over a series of months, you take the test again, you see how your score has gone up. So that's one interesting with a bow on take that. The other thing that I recommend to people that I coach is to start journaling. And many of you may already do this the act of taking a piece of paper or in a book perhaps, and spending even just two minutes writing something down. And even if on occasion, the people that I coach are just they've got complete block. They'll start by writing. Sandra asked me to write in this book, I've got no idea what to write about. And then all of a sudden five minutes have gone that's it and they They have described how they're feeling. And they have described their day or they've gone into some kind of description. Now, the reason why that's so important, Rick is because there's a thing called Emotional granularity, which is your ability to describe how you feel. And the more you practice, writing, particularly, you can type if you want to, but there's definitely some neuroscience that says, the process of getting it out of your head down your arm and writing with a pencil or a pen is quite, it's quite a different experience. But your ability over time, if you're able to do it every day or twice a week, even for a couple of minutes, we'll grow your emotional granularity, you will be more articulate. When people ask you how you're feeling, you will be more able to offer up words to other people that they could choose from, you can also perceive more of others behavior. Journaling is the way forward,

Rick Denton: 31:02

when I plan to ask you that question. That's not what I expected as the answer. And I love it when that happens. Because I imagine listeners, you may not have been thinking that as well and go journal, and chuckle about how I don't know what to write. And I remember somebody saying, you know, if you don't know how to start writing, then start writing. And that's exactly what you're saying, just start it. But I had never thought about how that applies to that emotional granularity and helping that expand emotional intelligence. Now, I think that's a fantastic start. I want to take this, and let's close here, I want to take it into kind of the manager level. Now, the director that you talked about in your story earlier wasn't already on board. And so I'm not talking about trying to convince someone of this. But if you're a manager, who already believes in this, and already knows the value of EI, how do you help them? How can they then help foster growth of Ei in their own teams,

Sandra Thompson: 32:01

this is where I'm going to talk about two elephants. Actually, I'm going to talk about two elephants. So the first elephant I'm going to talk about is the elephant and the rider. Now, this comes from an amazing book, by Jonathan Hyatt. And it's called the happiness hypothesis. He talks about the different ways the brain works, if you can imagine a six ton elephant with a rider on the top, I don't know however many pounds they might weigh. And the elephant represents the emotional side of our behavior. And the rider represents the rational side of our behavior. Now, the fact is that you're not going to get the elephant to budge, unless you are able to relate to it to motivate it to even be compelling with x to give it a reason to want to move forward. So when as a manager, you're giving instruction without a story, or a reason or an emotional connection, you may as well get your coat, because no one cares. And you will struggle to really bring people on board quickly, because they're just not emotionally connected to it. So that's the first thing, get that book, have a look at it. Visualize the elephant and the rider and really think consciously about everything you're doing. The second elephant is an actual fact, a really incredible man who I met a number of times online, I've never met him in person. He's an ex, New Zealand cricketer. He did a whole bunch of stuff professionally. And then he started exploring psychology and why people do things, why they don't do things. He's created a thing called the emotional culture deck. Now you can buy these things, or you can download them from his website. The idea here is that you give people a set of cards. So like a deck of playing cards, and on those cards are written words, like happiness, joy, misery, whatever it might be both positive and negative implied emotion. Give those cards to the people in your team and invite them to pick the cards that describe how they're feeling right now. Then invite them to pick the cards of how they really would like to feel and then work out the gap between the two. Because the fact is, there's this myth right that people don't want to talk about emotion. It is not true. People do want to be understood. They do want to help others to help themselves. And that game that's a very simple game, changes the conversation completely it builds an interest it be builds concern, compassion, empathy. And it's the start of emotional intelligence. Because once you are able to describe how you feel, you are better able to manage how you feel. And that is the first two of the four domains in emotional intelligence.

Rick Denton: 35:21

We're stopping right there. That was brilliant, Sandra, that is awesome. I love every bit of it, listeners, the resources that Sandra described, will get into the shownotes. So that you can have access to that simply through the show notes through a clickable link, so that you can have access to those tools that she's describing Sandra, this was a delight. And I did mention, of course, folks, now that we have a pre show column, we talked about things ahead of time, but you've taken me with some surprises here along the way. And I really do appreciate that because it means that I definitely learned today and I know the listeners and the viewers will have learned as well. Absolutely love the conversation around how to equip ourselves to get better at EI and to help others around us. And I do hope sincerely that one, you're never served sprouts, and that your bed serves you comfortably for the for as long as you have that bed, and never have an experience like that, again, Sandra, if folks wanted to get to know about you, how would they get to know you and learn more about you and your approach to AI?

Sandra Thompson: 36:25

The best place to go is LinkedIn. So you'll find me as the founder of Ei evolution. That's where I post very regularly. And I try as well to upload some tools, some practical things that I've created along the way that could be helpful to help people on their journey to having a happier life. Awesome.

Rick Denton: 36:50

I mean, what a great goal, right? Wouldn't that be a wonderful target for all of us? Well, Sandra, that to listeners and viewers will get into the notes below. It was brilliant today. Sandra appreciated every last bit of it. Sandra, thank you for being on CX passport.

Sandra Thompson: 37:06

My pleasure. Thank you so much.

Rick Denton: 37:13

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. If you liked today’s episode I have 3 quick next steps for you Click subscribe on the CX Passport youtube channel or your favorite podcast app Next leave a comment below the video or a review in your favorite podcast app so others can find and and enjoy CX Passport too Then, head over to cxpassport.com website for show notes and resources that can help you create tangible business results by delivering great customer experience. Until next time, I’m Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.