The one with the catalyst (not crusader) - Megan Burns Founder Experience Enterprises E179

🎤🎞️How to ACTUALLY create impact  “The one with the catalyst (not crusader)” with Megan Burns Founder Experience Enterprises in CX Passport Episode 179🎧 What’s in the episode?...

CHAPTERS

0:00 Introduction

2:26 Going from customer rhetoric to ACTION

6:42 Different generations approach to technology 

9:27 Don’t prove the ROI of CX?

16:45 Experience leadership and change management

21:51 1st Class Lounge

23:44 Deliver tangible business value through customer experience

28:33 Word Nerd Wednesday

30:17 Contact info and closing

If you like CX Passport, I have 3 quick requests:

✅Subscribe to the CX Passport YouTube channel youtube.com/@cxpassport

✅Join other “CX travelers” with the weekly CX Passport newsletter www.cxpassport.com

✅Accelerate business growth📈 by improving customer experience www.ex4cx.com/services

I'm Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport

Episode resources:

Megan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meganburns/

Book Recommendation - The Catalyst: How to Change Anyone's Mind by Jonah Berger

Transcript

Megan Burns: 0:00

you can make things happen without being very forceful about it without being overt about it. When you look at the most successful customer experience leaders they are almost playing a chess game.

Rick Denton: 0:14

Customer Experience wisdom, a dash of travel talk, we've been cleared for takeoff, the best meals are served outside and the quiet passport. Hey everybody, and welcome back to CX passport. Today, I'm thrilled to introduce someone that probably most of you already know. But I'm still thrilled to introduce Megan burns a fortune 500 Customer Experience strategist and keynote speaker from Greater Boston. Megan specializes in helping b2b companies grow by deeply understanding and meeting their customer needs her superpowers, making complex ideas simple, and crafting practical strategies that drive real results. Now, y'all know I love simplicity, there's way too much fluffernutter in the business world, so getting simple and practical is my business love language. It will be great to hear Megan's perspective on this. Before founding her advisory practice, Megan spent more than a decade at Forrester, where she led CX research and develop the Customer Experience Management Maturity Model. That's actually where I met Megan, maybe seven some odd years ago at a CX event in Boston. She impressed me then and she impresses me now. Today is a day today is the day that we are going to get in and discover her approach to customer experience success. Megan, welcome to CX passport.

Megan Burns: 1:35

Thank you so much, Rick. I'm absolutely delighted to be here. Yes,

Rick Denton: 1:39

let's get after this. And yes, listeners, Megan is up in that Boston area. today. I'm down in Texas. So we are in the same country, but in much different parts. Oh, Megan, I don't even think about that. I don't know how much of an NBA person I'm not much of an NBA person. But you and I are on opposite sides of an NBA Finals right now. I don't even think about that until just the second.

Megan Burns: 1:57

We are. And ironically, I grew up in the birthplace of basketball in Springfield, Massachusetts. And I think that experience sort of gave me my fill of basketball for a lifetime in my early years. It is not a sport that I follow. Obviously, I root for Boston and anything and everything. But I I am not I have not stayed up and watch the games, nor will I so I am Switzerland in this particular, even I

Rick Denton: 2:26

in the Central Time Zone have found it difficult to stay at for some of these games. I don't know how East Coast folks actually do it. So well. By the time this episode comes out, we'll know which side is happier. And I think being down three, one we know who's gonna end up winning. But who knows. We shall though since neither you nor I are huge NBA people, let's get back into the customer experience world, which is what our listeners and viewers actually thought they were gonna get. And I want to start with, let's just imagine that there's a company that is actually saying all these right things. They're saying customer first they're focused on the customer. But I know you've seen a gap between the actual doing of things at many companies, it is one thing to say it is another thing to do. Why on earth? Is there that disconnect? And how do you light the fire at a company?

Megan Burns: 3:13

Oh, goodness, there are a lot of reasons for the disconnect. I think the first one and the most universal one is the curse of knowledge. By definition, when you are in a company, or running it, especially, you know too much, you care too much, you understand too much. And so the ability to see your own business through the lens of a customer is clouded because you can't unknow things that you know, but the customer doesn't know or see or necessarily feel as passionately about those things as you do. So there's a fundamental perspective challenge that we have to fight constantly to really understand, okay, this is what our customers are seeing. Even if it's not what we think they see what we'd like them to see. Okay,

Rick Denton: 4:14

so you froze me with the curse of knowledge. And I think there's elements of sort of not in the sense of inside out outside in of that classic book, but just sort of that insular I live it every single day type inside knowledge. How can how can somebody breakthrough that how does a company get past that curse of knowledge so that they can go from the you know, the cat poster on the wall that says customer centricity to actually delivering on that customer approach? Yeah, I

Megan Burns: 4:44

mean, the gold standard is interacting with customers talking to them, having conversations with them being curious. You know, this is one of the places where customer verbatims especially if customers are struggling with something It is very often the source of the struggle is not anything you would think it was. And I'll give you an example. This isn't related to a company I work with, but just sort of from my own life. I have a family and older family member who is not terribly technology savvy, nor do they care to me, and has an iPhone S II, they are the person who why Apple still makes the SE because they want the physical home button. We were having a conversation one day and they said, Well, my phone doesn't download apps. And I said, What do you mean, your phone doesn't download apps? Well, I've tried but every time I try it, it doesn't work. So we got through the conversation and come to find out that when it said use Touch ID to approve the download of this app, they were touching on the red fingerprint in the white box in the center of the screen, not the home button, even though the home button was where they knew to touch to authenticate other things. And I said, You know what, that is a perfectly reasonable thing for you to assume to do in that moment, here's the big red fingerprint, touch the big red fingerprint. And that is not your fault. That is something frankly, I'm surprised Apple designers never thought about. It would never in a million years if I had tried to diagnose that that would never have been in the realm of possibility of anything I would have thought of, because I know that's not what you do. Right? So it's things like that, and situations like that, that we have to constantly be seeking out as a reminder that customers don't know what we know.

Rick Denton: 6:42

That's a I love that example. Because sure, when you and I sit here and hear that story, it becomes a dull moment. But before you saw that family member do that. I know that if I were sitting in some sort of a design session inside the company, I wouldn't know that that was a glitch, because it's it's so air quotes for listeners here, it's so obvious that of course, they should touch the Home button. And there's also probably a really good chance that in those design sessions, there's probably not an SE user to be found. And so they don't even know of a world that has a home button any longer. Well,

Megan Burns: 7:19

and it goes in the other direction, too. My fiance is a college professor, and he has shared with me many times that Gen Z doesn't understand the concept of saving a file in a particular location. They are so cloud native, that somebody's somebody's paper didn't upload to the right place. And he said, Well, where did you save the file, and they literally didn't understand the question. And I there's since been like Wall Street Journal in New York Times articles about this phenomenon. And they're just so used to things get saved somewhere, and I pulled them and then I can access them the concept of files and folders and structures that doesn't exist in their mental model of the world. So it's not an age specific thing. It's really a frame of reference thing that applies at every age, and in every domain. It just depends on what you've been exposed to.

Your CX Passport Captain: 8:14

This is your captain speaking. I want to thank you for listening to CX Passport today. We’ve now reached our cruising altitude so I’ll turn that seatbelt sign off. <ding> While you’re getting comfortable, hit that Follow or Subscribe button in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. I’d love it if you’d tell a friend about CX Passport and leave a review so that others can discover the show as well. Now, sit back and enjoy the rest of the episode.

Rick Denton: 8:40

I am so glad one you broke my brain again. So we're seven minutes into this break in my brain. Maybe we're not gonna finish this episode if I if you keep breaking me here. But that shows the genius of what you've got. I love though, that you brought that example, because there are many out there and I'm guilty of it too, that talks about, you know, the older generation, they don't know how to do X, Y or Z, right. And I actually have a pretty darn tech savvy 99 year old grandmother. So one, even my own assumptions are relatively false. And then, but we don't tend to look the other direction. And I love that first of all, you broke my brain because Wait, how could you not know what file locations are and that sort of thing. So that just disrupts me. If somebody saw my Google workspace would be all organized just like an old file structure of the the 80s DOS system. It is important to have that wide perspective. And I think we could spend a lot of time talking about that understanding the customer, the actions that come out of that I want to get to something else that you said that that is an extension of that doing. If we're actually doing what you're describing, listening and we're understanding the customers in the way that those customers are. If we're then acting on those results that should deliver tangible business results. Those of us in the CX world believe and there's data behind it that if we do right by the customer, you're going to get tangible business results. So that takes us to a conversation around ROI of C exe, but you said something when you and I were talking earlier, it totally caught me off guard, you said we should stop trying to prove the ROI of CX. And that caught me way off guard Tell me more what you mean by that?

Megan Burns: 10:13

Yeah, that was probably a little bit intentionally provocative. But when you say we want to prove the ROI of customer experience, if you if you deconstruct that from a Grammatik perspective, and you know that I'm a super word nerd, yeah, the return on investment of customer experience, well, everybody has a customer experience. So and return on investment comes from what is the benefit we're going to get from doing a instead of not a so it has to be something about the customer experience improving the customer experience, a better customer experience. But customer experience is so broad and involves so many things that in general, saying, you know, what is you could say, what is the return on investment of having an appreciably better experience than the competition? That is something you could actually attempt to calculate. But again, what made it appreciably better? What was the investment? So the way I like to look at it is, instead of trying to sort of prove this broad, almost sometimes it feels like moral case of why we should care about how we treat customers go the other way around and say we want to increase retention, what could we change in the way we interact with customers, that would make them want to stay with us longer. And so it is the return on investment of a particular change or something through the vehicle of a particular form of customer interaction? I think it's that trying to sort of prove the motherhood and apple pie case, for customer experience, that is a bit of a futile exercise, but one that people have burned a lot of energy around.

Rick Denton: 12:04

Is it? So Megan? Yeah, that's starting to make sense to me that helped me get a little bit further down that path, is it? Because we're saying that experience itself may not be able to be quantified? Or outside of you know, sort of nbsc said, those are things but it's more of the idea of, what is it actually affecting? Is that what we're trying to say? So that CX influence is something else? And it's the something else that we should be talking about the ROI of? Is that where you're taking us? It is?

Megan Burns: 12:35

Absolutely, and if you think about, you know, how people make decisions in the moment you think about a company are you think about a person and you think, what do I think of this company? Or this person? Are they going to be easy to deal with? Are they going to be a pain? Are they fair? Are they ethical, all of that impression is formed from a series of personal experiences that you've had with them stories you've heard about them. So each experience you have is shaping that overall perception and belief about the company. And it's that overall perception and belief about the company that then in turn drives business decisions, like am I going to purchase with you. So that's the other part of the reason that it's a little bit difficult, unless you talk about something very specific, you know, certain experiences, being better or worse, are not going to win you a customer, and they're not going to lose you a customer. But they can erode or strengthen that relationship, and make it more or less likely. So it's a little bit more of a gradual phenomenon, than I think a lot of folks would mathematically like it to be. But

Rick Denton: 13:46

well, I like that you mentioned that because so much of us in the CX world, or maybe I'm just self biased, maybe a little more right brained than left brain. And so maybe that's how we've created a world where we may not be as numeric as, as some of the other elements of it. Maybe there's something in there, though. So we you and I, and there's been kind of a conversation sort of out there that 2023 was bad for folks in the CX world, and it continues to be bad. We're seeing layoffs, we're seeing folks that are losing positions, head of CX is no longer a role of perhaps desire chief customers, all that kind of stuff. And so when we talk about not having an ROI of CX a lot of conversation, but no, we've got to prove the ROI. I wonder, is there something almost softer than that? Is there a branding issue with customer experience our businesses just simply tired of hearing sort of that CX stuff?

Megan Burns: 14:37

Yeah, that's certainly part of it. So the way I've come to realize sort of the Uber brand of customer experience is that we are the eat healthy and exercise of the business world. Everybody knows you should eat healthy, everybody knows you should exercise. If I ask people to rattle off five or 10 best practices you should always do most People could give me those if I said, How often do you do them, then we would start to get people looking at their feet and going uncomfortably, you know? So when we, when we go in and we talk about we need to care about or pay attention to customer experience. Everybody says, yes, absolutely, we have to. And to a certain extent, it's not even about the data. Because there is plenty of data. It's about the fact that when people are operating in their lives day to day, we don't necessarily think about what is objectively best for us. And our organization. In the long term, we're much more short term oriented. And so from a branding perspective, we have to recognize more, that the way we need to show up to the business conversation is not as cheerleaders and telling people No, I'm serious, you really should eat more vegetables. Figure out how do we help people do more of the things that are good for them in the business? Sometimes without them knowing I hate vegetables on myself, I'll be the first one to admit I'm not a big veggie eater. So all those articles on how to hide veggies and foods for kids, Sign me up. I don't have kids, but I use those. So the way I describe that is usually that we have to be more catalysts than Crusaders.

Rick Denton: 16:29

Oh my gosh. Okay. I like that. I like everybody. So first of all, if you don't have a good trademark attorney, Megan, you need to go get one because let's say you've given us the curse of knowledge. You've given us the eat healthy and exercise of business. Now you be a catalyst, not a crusader. These are genius phrases. By the way, if you haven't read, I've never read it. But Jerry Seinfeld's wife, I think had a cookbook on how to hide vegetables.

Megan Burns: 16:57

And I've seen it, I've never read it. But I've seen like a decade ago,

Rick Denton: 17:00

but when you mentioned that, I'm thinking about that, that idea of I want to get back to the catalyst, not a crusader for a second, but that idea of hiding the vegetables. What does that look like? Have you? Have you done that? Or seen that at a company? What does that look like in practice? It

Megan Burns: 17:16

can look like a lot of things. It can be sharing information about customers or customer perspective, in bite size ways, and not doing it in a big preachy way. You know, we saw something that's really interesting, and I'm not quite sure what to make of it, you know, when when customers are trying to do this, they're seeing this, this and this. Or they're telling us this, this and this, you know, what do you think is going on there? And so you're presenting information, but you're presenting it in a way that is is more curious than saying, Oh, hey, look, you're doing something wrong, because customers don't like this. And you're bringing people into the conversation, I always talk about the fact that it's much more effective to create scenarios where people can have their own aha moments by being exposed to data or seeing customers as opposed to standing there and lecturing them. So that is one of the ways that you do that. The other another way that you can kind of hide your vegetables, is from a governance perspective, a lot of people think, okay, we want to create a customer experience governance model, if I can avoid it, I tell clients to avoid it, I say, look at the governance you already have, what are the controls you're using? And are there places where we can start to integrate well? What would that look like to customers? How would that process integrate with this other thing here? Can we start to bring those checks and balances around experience into the existing mechanisms of the organization's so that people end up doing the quote unquote, right thing without there being a big power struggle to

Rick Denton: 19:03

that right there? That's something that I think a lot of us in the CX world are starting to see, we're starting to realize that this idea of, you know, the light on the Hill type model, as opposed to No, let's just integrate how many metaphors are we going to throw into one episode here, but a lot of metaphors, the but the the idea of integrating it, I get the sense, but I don't want to fully assume but that's that's what's behind that phrase, be a catalyst, not a crusader helped me understand what you mean by that

Megan Burns: 19:31

phrase? Sure. So there's there's a lot behind that. But the basic thing is that you can make things happen and be the spark that makes things happen without being very forceful about it without being very overt about it. And when you look at the most successful customer experience leaders they are almost playing a chess game. And they're playing it very quietly. So they're asking this person to do this, they're, you know, creating, they're setting up these conditions here. So they're making movements that cause things to change in an organization, but in a very subtle, not overt way. So they're catalysts for change without trying to force the change, versus a crusader, who was someone who stands up at townhall meetings and has the data and shares examples about Amazon and USAA. And Disney and everybody rolls their eyes. Because we're a big b2b company. We're never going to be Disney, you know, most of my clients are b2b. And that that catalyst approach has proven to be much more successful. But then I really doubled down on that metaphor, when I read a book called The Catalyst by Jonah Berger, who is a psychology professor. And he pointed out that in chemistry, when you take a catalyst is something that speeds up a chemical reaction. But a catalyst doesn't work by adding energy to the system. It doesn't push people or things to go faster. It moves things around, so that more of the right reactions happen, using the energy that's already in the system. So you're not trying to make people care more or work harder. You're just kind of moving pieces so that things that need to come together are more naturally likely to come together in the right place at the right time more often. And that, to me felt like a really elegant description of influence and change management, especially in the way it plays out in customer experience at its absolute best.

Rick Denton: 21:51

Megan, my mind is absolutely blown. I've said it a couple times already. Normally, I offer a break to the guests. No, no, I need a break. So I need to step into the first class lounge. I'd love to invite you into the first class lounge with me. But I'm the one that's going to need a moment to unpack all that juicy knowledge that you gave. So let's have a little fun here. What is a dream travel location from your past?

Megan Burns: 22:16

A dream travel location from my past would be London. Oh yeah, I had I first went to London on business, and I am a huge anglophile. I am a huge history buff. And so the first time I went to London, it was one of the only times on a business trip, I actually took time out and did like the tourist thing. And they practically had to throw me out of Westminster Abbey, because I was so fascinated by all that. And then I'm on my phone looking up. Okay, wait a minute, how was this king or queen related to this one? So that was really probably one of the favorite places I've ever visited in my life.

Rick Denton: 22:55

Oh, that's awesome. And with Boston, being relatively close to London is a good place to get to for sure. What about a dream travel vacation you've not been to yet? Well,

Megan Burns: 23:05

there's two things are connected. Scotland and Ireland. And I'm actually going to both in addition to the UK, we're doing a British Isles cruise in just a couple of weeks. But the landscape and the history of half my family is Irish, so learning about that, but also just the history and the culture of Scotland and going all the way back to the ancient pits. Like I said, we're huge nerds. So we're very excited and we get to play with Shetland ponies and you know who doesn't want me to

Rick Denton: 23:44

come on and I mean a you get that right the built in. That's awesome. Yeah, I've got I've got Scottish in my background. So there's a McLeod castle and a McLeod tartan that have family members have been to I need to make the trip. The problem is I would probably spend more time at the you know, the aisle of ILA and enjoy the distilleries, but eventually I might make it to some of the castles as well.

Megan Burns: 24:04

Yeah, we negotiated that. There's there's one distillery out of the four stops we're making I said I'm not going to all four distilleries or distilleries in all four cities, but that certainly could have happened that

Rick Denton: 24:17

like that. What is a favorite thing of yours to eat?

Megan Burns: 24:22

Oh, since it's really hot outside today, I'd have to say ice cream.

Rick Denton: 24:27

Yeah, well that's a winner Heck yeah.

Megan Burns: 24:29

Yeah. Also fresh strawberries. I absolutely its prime strawberry season right now is the end of June. There's nothing like a fresh naturally sweet, juicy strawberry. Boy

Rick Denton: 24:39

there is now what you need to do. Megan, if I quote friends, here's put your hands together and chop those strawberries up, get that vanilla ice cream and put those two together and have a wonderful little treat. Yes, this is the opposite of a treat. What is something you were forced to eat when you were growing up but you hate it as a kid ah for

Megan Burns: 25:00

pretty much any kind of vegetable for their start. Yeah, I would I wasn't, I wasn't forced to, I was very lucky. I grew up living with my grandparents, so I wasn't forced to eat a lot of things. But vegetables were probably the one that broccoli in particular, I've tried to like it as an adult at just not know.

Rick Denton: 25:27

Well, as we know from the outside of the first class lounge, clearly, vegetables play an important part in your distaste category there, we are going to have to exit the lounge here. So what is one travel item not including your phone, not including your passport that you will not leave home without,

Megan Burns: 25:44

ah, not including my phone or my passport. I should have I should be unpacking right now. So I'm sort of overwhelmed by the list of options. In my head, I would say probably my air pods, just because I need to tune things out. I'm very easily distracted. And so if I don't put something in my ears to sort of zone out the noise, I'll just be so interested in what's going on everywhere that I'll be too tired when I get where I'm going to actually do anything. So probably my air pods.

Rick Denton: 26:30

Yeah, there's something about putting some music in the ears or whatever that might be. That is your distraction that keeps you focused, which sometimes doesn't make intuitive sense. You think silence would but you're right, having a little ambient noise back there, it gets some things going. I do want to get tactical here. And gosh, I'm looking at the clock here. But do we I think we're still good for a little bit. But I want to get tactical. So if you're on a CX team, or you're a CX leader, or just customer experience, related, related adjacent, regardless of what it's labeled, what are the attributes that you should be creating in that team, and in yourself to be successful? And deliver those tangible business value results to the company?

Megan Burns: 27:10

Well, I think the first thing you need to be cultivating is the ability to listen and really understand what others are focused on. And sometimes to agree that a degree that people don't think about it. So I was working with a client and we had been talking about how do we show the connection between customer experience and revenue growth. And I listened to one of the company's earnings calls, which is something I recommend anybody who works for a public company do. And what I noticed is that the CEO didn't talk about revenue growth he caught he talked about closing deals. So I went back and said, Guys, we weren't listening carefully enough. We don't need to be talking about how customer experience drives revenue growth, we need to be talking about how the experience we deliver to our current customers helps us close new deals. That's a subset of that. But that language and that specificity is where that executives brain is right now. So listening for that language and how they see and talk about the goal is then going to help you translate whatever it is you're doing. As this is a tactic and a technique for getting to that goal.

Rick Denton: 28:30

I will dad gummit. Megan, you broke me again. But the the the idea of words matter like that I've always said brand matters. And it does when you're trying to sell an initiative when you're trying to get a CX program going for to forget CX program just X that you're trying to move forward, your words, your branding matter. But that specific example that you're describing, that that's intriguing because it's just a reflex, let's go straight to revenue, because well, of course, that's the top line of any profits sort of statement. But the word choice they're closing deals is what matter. And as I'm hearing that, I'm reminded of something that at least to my knowledge you've started doing recently, or maybe have been doing for quite a while. But it's that Word of the Week. And now I'm getting a little more insight into the person of Megan, as I hear you talk about that story there with listening to the earnings call. Tell me about the Word of the Week. Yeah, why? Why did you start that? What drives your fascination with words?

Megan Burns: 29:28

You know, I'm not sure what drives it. Yeah, I started word nerd Wednesday, probably four or five years ago now. And I've always been curious, I vote my mom used to call me George because I was always asking why why why when I was a little kid like Curious George and my brain thinks in words most people's brains thinking images mind doesn't mind thinks in words. So when says when someone says something, I'm always well, what do you mean by that? Is it this or is it that and I have learned over the years that that That is a really powerful analytical device, really understanding. So very often when I'm working with a client on, okay, we want to improve customer experience, well, which experience, you want to improve it, What Does better mean? It means more of this and less of this. And getting down to that degree of specificity. Humans act in the concrete world, we can think abstractly, but to actually get stuff done, it has to be concrete. And so the ability to choose your words for meaning, for motivation for clicking with people, it's really, really powerful. And in fact, I, in my experience, 20 years doing this precise words, and being really intentional about what you say, is more powerful than precise numbers. Everybody thinks we have to have the most precise data, we have to have the most precise data I've seen companies have the most precise data and still not make a decision still not trust, the data still be paralyzed. But if you can find the right word choice, or articulate something in a certain way, very often they're off to the races.

Rick Denton: 31:19

Wow. We're gonna end this that's that's where I want to end this episode, because that is incredibly juicy. And it is a it is the ice cream and strawberry reward for those who have chosen to listen to the entire episode because Megan, that's really impactful. Because even like, I know that I can be very casual with my words. It's it's probably the improv nature, that it's just, I I'm in a conversation, I just started talking, right. But that precision that you're describing, when it's needed, when it's important to be precise, when it is vital to get a message for it or influence a decision to be made that word choice matters, Megan, there's a lot that folks, I'll just say right now should know about you get to know more about you. word nerd Wednesday, whatever that looks like, what is the best way for folks to get to know about you? Your approach to CX, your the work that you do for b2b? How can they learn more?

Megan Burns: 32:17

LinkedIn is definitely the best place to go. That's where I post it's pretty much the only social media channel that I'm on. And that's where I post word nerd Wednesday. You will also on there find I host a book club. So in line with the nerdiness factor. I host a book club called the CX frontiers. And we it's called frontiers because we read non Customer Experience Books, we read books from adjacent fields, and talk about how do we apply principles from those other fields to find creative solutions to CX problems. So that book club is another place but all the information about that is also on LinkedIn as well. So that that's sort of my nerve center.

Rick Denton: 32:59

Awesome. I will of course listen to yours, you know, scroll down, click the link, there's Megan's LinkedIn. Make it I'm also going to add a link to the book that you had mentioned, the catalyst book by Jonah Berger is what I heard. Okay. Get that in there, because that sounds like an intriguing read as well, y'all. And so you may want to have a look at that book as well. Megan. This was a wide ranging and delightful treat. I have come away with a full assortment of phrases. Beyond the phrases I've also come to an incredible suite of new knowledge. That has been quite tasty today. So Megan, it has been a fun journey with you today. It's been a good ride. Thank you for being on CX password.

Megan Burns: 33:39

Absolutely. My pleasure. Right. Thank you.

Rick Denton: 33:46

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. If you liked today’s episode I have 3 quick next steps for you Click subscribe on the CX Passport youtube channel or your favorite podcast app Next leave a comment below the video or a review in your favorite podcast app so others can find and and enjoy CX Passport too Then, head over to cxpassport.com website for show notes and resources that can help you create tangible business results by delivering great customer experience. Until next time, I’m Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.