The one with the Guatemalan CX - Enrique Saenz CEO & Founder of PercepcionesCX E188

🎤🎞️Another new CX Passport country! “The one with the Guatemalan CX” with Enrique Saenz CEO & Founder of PercepcionesCX in CX Passport Episode 188🎧 What’s in the episode?...

CHAPTERS

0:00 Introduction

2:00 Enrique Saenz's Journey into Customer Experience

10:00 Guatemala's Role in Latin American Economy and CX

14:30 Physical Customer Experience and Multi-Sensory Tools

17:00 Travel and Cultural Insights from Guatemala

23:39 Enrique's Travel Experiences and Dream Destinations

28:39 The Role of Technology in CX and Tangible Business Results

34:14 Contact info and closing

If you like CX Passport, I have 3 quick requests:

✅Subscribe to the CX Passport YouTube channel youtube.com/@cxpassport

✅Join other “CX travelers” with the weekly CX Passport newsletter www.cxpassport.com

✅Accelerate business growth📈 by improving customer experience www.ex4cx.com/services

I'm Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport

Episode resources:

Enrique LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/enrique-saenz-mba-ccx-5697a4/

Book Recommendation - The Ultimate Question: Driving Good Profits and True Growth by Fred Reichheld

Mestizo Hotel: https://www.mestizoantigua.com/en

Transcript

Enrique Saenz: 0:00

It. Areas are pushing for this digital transformation, but they have to understand that it has to start with the customer. You know, you cannot start with the technology. Have to start with the customer.

Rick Denton: 0:11

Customer Experience wisdom, a dash of travel talk. We've been cleared for takeoff. The best meals are served outside and require passport. Welcome to CX passport, y'all today, I am thrilled to have our very first guest from Guatemala Enrique science. Y'all know how much I want to fill the global map with guests and get their unique perspectives. And today we finally get to fill Guatemala Enrique is the founder and CEO of perceptionist CX, a consultancy dedicated to transforming customer experiences in Latin America. With over 25 years of experience in marketing, sales and customer experience management, Enrique knows how to drive innovation and create customer centric strategies. He's a bain certified CX and NPS practitioner, and was a key figure in driving the cxpa Latin America Regional Council forward earlier this decade, enrique's work spans multiple industries, from banking to hospitality, where he leverages technology and data to deepen customer relationships and boost loyalty. While I've been to a few countries in Central America, unfortunately, I haven't made it to Guatemala yet. Today, I'm happy to experience it vicariously through Enrique, and I know you will enjoy it today too. Enrique, welcome to CX passport.

Enrique Saenz: 1:35

Thank you, Rick, thank you. It's a pleasure to be here, and it's always nice to talk about CX.

Rick Denton: 1:42

Yes, it is. And it's doubly nice for me to be able to talk about CX with someone in a country I have not had the chance to experience before. Well, Enrique, let's start with CX. What got you started in the world of customer experience? How did that became where you chose to focus?

Enrique Saenz: 2:00

Well, I think it's not just one answer or one one point in my life that got me to CX, but I can tell you that since my my my high school years, I used to be very passionate about brands, you know, I used to to have this white t shirt, and I used to draw the brands, you know, in the in the t shirt, really? Yeah, I kind of was passionate about sports brands also, but it was, it always intrigued me. What made these great brands, you know, so big, you know, and so powerful that that has changed a lot recently, but it always impressed me. How can they be all over the world, and how can people prefer them over over other other brands? And so it was the power of the brand. And I used to work in advertising and and we used to work on branding strategy, you know, and also manage brand equity. So that was, that was very, very important in my, maybe my early in my career. I also it, besides trying to understand the strategies behind these brands I was, I'm also very analytic person, so I like to extract information from data and previously, before all this technology boom, I used to work with large databases in Excel, you know, trying to figure out what is going on in, you know, making, making these dynamic tables, and trying to see what's going on in the sales and what customers are buying, and how long have They been buying. So that that was something that I really got into, you know, hours and hours of trying to analyze and trying to find, you know, key data and key insights that that would allow me to to increase sales or make better decisions, so that that is also important in in my life. And I consider myself being very, very analytic, right? And in 2008 I partnered with one of my best high school friends, and we started offering customer satisfaction measurement services through this digital instruments. You know, that that were kind of fading out because the technology was starting of of the, you know, the mobile phones and also the tablets. But there was a very rustic, rustic tool, but it was very innovative for the for the year. So we started offering that, and people liked it. You know I can, I can capture information from the point of sale, mainly retail and also restaurant. You know, everything that needed to be captured in the point of sale. And we started offering that, some people told us, you know that, but the technology is not that good, because you had this. You. This big, big tablet, almost like tablets, you know, but you didn't have any light. You had a modem, one of those modems, and, you know, it sounded like, you know, when you connected them to

Rick Denton: 5:12

the I may add the modem dial up sound to the episode. We'll see what happened in post production.

Enrique Saenz: 5:18

So it was very rustic, you know, and you still had to connect the device to the computer to download the survey and then to download the data. So it was very and technology was going so fast, you know, that it had been changing. But I really saw an interest in people doing this, and then I started, you know, contacting some companies in the US that were really pioneers in this, in this, in this area, and from there, I think, almost it exploded. Everything exploded with the, you know, the Wi Fi and the tablets and the and the smartphones, but we also offered some mystery shopping services and measurement, you know, the the this mystery shopping, shopping services. And I think that's when it would all started. But later in in 2014 I came across the, the ultimate question, 2.0 book, okay, and I read it, and it was just, I don't know, I it just made sense to me how companies need to focus on a on a larger purpose than just selling, you know, and making money, and also the the NPS being, you know, it's such an analytical tool and something that really is based on hard data that you can really learn about loyalty through the measurement of the MPs. So I think all of that is what made me maybe go into CX in 2016 I also between 2014 and 2016 I I also started listening a lot about CX in internet and and I also came across some companies, consulting companies in Europe that were really advanced, you know, and pushing for, for, for these services in Latin America. So that's, that's also how I learned a little bit about, see what CX management is about,

Rick Denton: 7:16

what there's, there's a lot to that. And a couple of themes that I heard in there was some of your core like you talked about, I love the data, the analytics, that aspect of it, how that is a foundational piece that is so important to the success of customer experience. And there was the element of technology, right? Even the theme that was in my head there was okay, so maybe the technology wasn't the most modern compared to today, or even at the time then, but it was something you got started. The company got started. And I think a lot of companies think, all right, well, I gotta have the fanciest tool. I gotta have the best initiative. I gotta do that where sometimes it's just a matter of, can you just get started and listen to the customer and then do something about what you've heard from the customer. Do you find I'm curious about customer experience in general in Latin America, given that that background that you're describing just today, for someone like me who doesn't practice in that region, and others that are listening, how would you describe the current state of customer experience in Latin America in general, and then Guatemala specifically.

Enrique Saenz: 8:25

Well, I think CX has really advanced in Latin America. You know, we're so close to the US, and we are very influenced by the US and by Europe, you know, because we've always been, you know, laggards in innovation. So everything that is, you know, generating a boom, or generating interest in the in the in the US or in Europe, eventually comes back to Latin America very fast. We have a lot of people traveling, you know, to these places. So eventually it comes back to Guatemala, or to Latin America, I'm sorry, very fast. And I think that we have been in Latin America advancing a lot. I think technology has done great, great work on this. Because, you know, we have all these big technology companies trying to get into the market, and Latin America is growing as well. So they see that there is a lot of potential in the Latin American market. So we see a lot of the technology companies always, you know, doing this effort, since Microsoft or Google or any of the other companies started doing this today. Latin America is seen as one of the the important markets to be in and to develop. So I think there that, besides that, there is a still a lot of confusion about what CX is. You know, there's a lot of confusion. Between, between customer experience management and and experience marketing, you know, that's, that's one of the main confusions, and also about what it takes to to really get results from from CX practice, you know, that's, that's, there's a lot of confusion. And we also see that many companies think that just by implementing a survey or implementing NPS, that's that's all about listening to the customer, you know, and it's and it's not like that, you know, we have been trying to to teach and to get people to understand that our customer centric strategy is actually for differentiation, and that you really need to today with the power of the consumer, you need to really have a customer centric strategy on place, even if you have it together with a product centric strategy, you know, but it's, it's usually, you need To have a combination of of different strategies, but the customer centric strategy needs to be in place because the power that technology has given the consumer, you know. So this is something that you have to realize as a company, Guatemala is not different than any other Latin American country. We are the biggest, biggest country, the biggest economy in Central America. And I would say we're in the top 10 of Latin America, even maybe the top top six in Latin America. I didn't

Rick Denton: 11:30

realize that Guatemala was the largest Central American economy. That shows my ignorance coming into this episode. There were some others that I might have put ahead of it. And so that's that, that, right, there is an interesting, a little, little nugget. So, yeah, with that, that power of the economy, I imagine customer experience, as you were starting to say, has some influence there.

Enrique Saenz: 11:50

Yes, yes. And I think that in Latin America, we're usually very, I don't know if you say it's serviceable. I like, like, we like to give service. We're very social, you know. So we we like to treat people well, you know. We like to eat, we like to dance. So I think we are very social people, you know. We live with our families until we were 35 or something like that. So we like we like parties, we like socialization. And I think that's part of also giving service. You know, that makes sense. I think, I think it has been CX in Latin America has been developing very fast. We have universities teaching CX courses. We have independent companies also giving certifications and all this. And I think that that is very positive, but we also have to be very careful about where the information is coming from, you know, service service focused companies, or service consultants. These companies used to be focused on service, service service, you know, and then all of a sudden, CX started gaining ground, and then they changed their names to to CX, but they're also still very focused on on customer service and not right, not the the program, the CX program as a whole. And then now all the CX companies are changing to employee experience. You know, everybody just changes the name as a as the the the names are being more popular or less

Your CX Passport Captain: 13:27

This is your captain speaking. I want popular, this to thank you for listening to CX Passport today. We’ve now reached our cruising altitude so I’ll turn that seatbelt sign off. <ding> While you’re getting comfortable, hit that Follow or Subscribe button in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. I’d love it if you’d tell a friend about CX Passport and leave a review so that others can discover the show as well. Now, sit back and enjoy the rest of the episode.

Rick Denton: 13:54

Let me ask you a question about that, that service theme that you brought in there, because it actually reminds me of something that you had told me earlier that you had once worked for a company to help improve the physical in store, customer experience, the physical, the audio, even the scent. Those are elements that often get overlooked for other elements, like digital in service. And that's not to say that digital and service aren't important. Those are clearly important customer experience elements. They're just not the only ones. Would you tell me more about that company and the focus on the physical experience? We don't hear enough about that. How were you able to improve business results through that focus on physical experience?

Enrique Saenz: 14:34

Well, actually, it was the same company, this perception, CX, it was the same company. When we started, we started offering the customer satisfaction measurement and the mystery shopping services, and then I came across this company that was providing these multi sensorial tools to improve the customer experience, mainly in retail, you know. So I was very impressed about that. And. And how you can really affect the emotions of people in any place and make it make them more open to to buy you know, or to interact better, or to engage better you know, through, through these, these, these tools. Also, when you have a smell, you also kind of influences your memory. And you have more stronger, stronger memories, you know. And this is something that has been analyzed in customer behavior and, you know, and anatomy, and you know, the science has has investigated this a lot, and many companies are doing this. Our Colombian fridge, that was one of the originals, you know, that included, yeah, this, and not even going into the store, you know, you go right, come into the mall, yeah, and then you kind of smell something, and say, oh, there has to be an Abercrombie and fish here, you know, I have To

Rick Denton: 16:00

admit here that I may or may not have been aware of that Cologne in the 90s, but we'll just not go open those records of my history.

Enrique Saenz: 16:11

But I think that, yes, this, this is more focused on the experience, experience marketing site. You know, it's not, but what we were trying to do is just try these tools and see, you know, through the customer satisfaction measurement, see if they they were valuable or not, if they were helping to increase sales, to increase traffic, to Increase memorable experiences, but it is purely more related to to experience marketing than to CX management programs. Okay,

Rick Denton: 16:48

and that I get, I will be somewhat listeners have heard me say that that sometimes I the labels to me can be somewhat fluid, because ultimately, what are you doing? You're trying to do better by the customer in order to improve business results. And what you were describing, there is a way to that physical in store experience helps improve the overall experience, which then improves the the the tangible business results. I want to take a complete experience. Turn here, right? I'm just going to completely curve on you here. I haven't been to Guatemala. I've been around it. I've done Costa Rica, I've been to other well actually way further south, Brazil, Mexico, other areas, Honduras, but never Guatemala. And it's only a three and a half hour flight for me, so I really have to get that bumped up my travel list. It's not CX related, but would you tell me more about traveling there, and along with kind of the signature, the best things that every travel guide would tell you, what are those places, restaurants, unique experience that a local like you would tell someone like me?

Enrique Saenz: 17:53

Well, let me start by saying that I was born in Costa Rica because my father worked 30 years. Yes, yes. My father worked 30 years for for Shell Oil, so he got transferred to Costa Rica, and I don't know they probably didn't have a TV. And me and my older brother were born there. Okay, in Costa Rica. So

Rick Denton: 18:16

I get the joke there. That was subtle. Actually, we, we

Enrique Saenz: 18:20

never, I never went back until I was like, like, in my 20s, okay? And I came to Guatemala before my first year. So, I mean, I never lived in Costa Rica. I only have the passport, you know. But I would say that Guatemala is, is Costa Rica is very, very famous for the traveling, you know, for the hospitality, and they have very nice beaches, and they have a very well developed tourism, you know, programs. But Guatemala is impressive. Guatemala, we have three main, you know, tourist attractions that you have to visit sometime in your life. First, we have the Antigua Guatemala, which is the colonial city that used to be the capital of Guatemala, but also the whole Central America. You know, when the Spaniards came, they it was actually the whole region that they had, they had established as as the the Guatemala, you know, and Antigua has preserved, you know, their colonial style. You cannot put any signs or any design, anything architecturally that is not colonial. So it's one of those colonial cities in Latin America that you have to visit, and it is full of, you know, small boutique hotels. And actually, my sister has one that is very, very it's called mestizo, okay, and they have done a wonderful job there, with the with the boutique hotel, but it's impressive. You know, all these little hotels that you have there, and even you can now, well, rent Airbnb. And bees and everything. And it's just such a calm town. And you have it full of little restaurants, very, very good restaurants. And it's speaking to me here.

Rick Denton: 20:12

I love it's an

Enrique Saenz: 20:13

amazing city that has a lot of nation you know, between between gourmet, between colonial, and also you can also interact with, you know, the traditional indigenous communities that are still living there and are selling, you know, a lot of things, a lot of, you know, textiles, and it's, it's impressive, what, what they still do, you know. Okay, so Antigua Guatemala is a have to place that you have to visit in in your life. Then we have a titlan, which you can see

Rick Denton: 20:46

this, what that was behind you. This picture

Enrique Saenz: 20:50

behind me, it's, it's a picture of a paint, a painting from a small town initlan. And you can see the volcano there, and also the lake. And this, this lake is, is surrounded by different volcanoes, and you can see this cool, and it's a clear, clear weather. Me, it's just impressive, the blue, the of the lake and the the volcanoes, you know, so high, so it's, it's one of the most beautiful lakes in the world. And it's not, not very far away from the city. So that's another very incredible place. And there are different different towns along the lake that you can visit. And a lot of tourists, you know, go to these little towns, and they live in these hotels, but they're very rustic, you know, but they're very, very good. And actually, the view is what takes everything, you know, it's what makes degrading state

Rick Denton: 21:49

as rustic as you want, as long as you got a good view. Boy, I believe in that, but,

Enrique Saenz: 21:54

but the view is just you're immersing in nature, and it's just impressive. And then the third one, which is not less impressive, is Tikal, which is one of the largest Mayan cities that existed in the region. And you have this impression, Impressive, impressive buildings from the Mayan culture. You know that it's just impressive how they built them. Nice. Maybe the same, or more impressive than the than the Giza. Giza,

Rick Denton: 22:27

really, yes,

Enrique Saenz: 22:28

yes. I mean, it's, it's really impressive. They have, they have just found in in because this is, this is like a forest, you know, a tropical forest, one of the largest tropical forests in the in the world, and they have found, maybe some five or 10 years ago, they found this huge city with with one of the largest, what do you call them, the largest structures of the Mayan culture, inside this forest, which they have not uncovered at all, you know? Yeah, so you can visit it, but they say it's much more bigger than Tikal, and it's one of the biggest ruins in the world, so, and you have to fly in helicopter to to this place, and you can start seeing what they're doing. But it's Tikal and the whole tropical forest there is just impressive, what to see and experience. So those are the three main attractions in in Guatemala,

Rick Denton: 23:39

Enrique, I already now, I'm not exaggerating. I'm sitting here thinking about, okay, when can I actually book a flight like I'm intrigued by it. I definitely want to get the the link to your sister's hotel in the in the show notes here, off air, you can tell me some of the good restaurants to check out, because it the Guatemala is definitely bumping up my list. That the volcano one especially, really caught me. I would love to be on that lake surrounded by volcanoes when we travel, especially if it's longer than a three and a half hour flight, it is nice to stop off in a lounge. There are some great global lounges. Today, you're going to get a chance to be a part of the first class lounge here in CX passport. We'll move quickly here and have a little bit of fun. What is a dream travel location from your past?

Enrique Saenz: 24:21

Okay, so I haven't not traveled too much. I have traveled a lot to the US and also Central America and maybe Mexico. You know, very close by. I haven't been to to to Europe yet, but I would say I had the opportunity to visit. I like beaches. I like I like the ocean. So I went to the Dutch islands of the coast of South America, you know. And I think Aruba and Bonaire are amazing. Are just amazing Bonaire. Bonaire is a little bit more rustic, you know? It's smaller. I. But Aruba, the beaches and the whole development, the tourist development that is over there, is just incredible. So I love that. I think that's, that's the best, best place. I've

Rick Denton: 25:12

been good, good call on Aruba. I need to get there. I haven't had the chance to hit that island yet. But the problem with this, this darn little first class lounge, it just makes me want to go places, and unfortunately, I actually have to do work, so I got to figure out a way to blend the work and the travel here. What about a dream travel location you've not been to yet?

Enrique Saenz: 25:30

Well, as I said, I haven't been to Europe, and I am a very avid and fanatic soccer fan, so visiting the stadiums over there is a plus. But what I would really like to do, I also like to eat, you know. I like to to have wine, you know. And so my dream vacation would be just going through Italy, Spain and France, you know, and going to the small towns and trying different wines, you know, and eating some good food. That would be just incredible with a lot of time. Also, you know, because you cannot be rushed,

Rick Denton: 26:05

yes, right? There's something about Tuscany that is just slow travel inspiration. Absolutely, you mentioned food. What is a favorite thing of yours to eat?

Enrique Saenz: 26:15

Well, we like to eat a lot of meat. You know, we have very incredible meat. When you come to Guatemala, you're going to try the meat, and you're going to see the difference. And we like to do, you know, like cookouts, you know. And I like that. I like meat, you know. And maybe have some vegetables on the grill and that just over some wine or some beers, you know. I love that.

Rick Denton: 26:39

Oh, boy. I'm a fan. I like that category. Just what's favorite thing to eat, meat, meet me. And grilled vegetables sounds good to me. The other direction, though, what is something growing up you were forced to eat, but you hated as a kid,

Enrique Saenz: 26:51

I was, I was trying to think about that, and I don't. I cannot think about anything that my parents forced me to eat, but they were very conservative. You know, I haven't eaten liver or brains or something like that, I haven't had there are some crea Diaz, which, which are, I don't know if you know what they are, but I don't they're bulls.

Rick Denton: 27:15

I don't know. Yeah, Rocky, Rocky Mountain Oysters for us here in the Yes, yeah.

Enrique Saenz: 27:22

I also like seafood a lot. You know, I like seafood a lot. Okay, so

Rick Denton: 27:27

you have the real oysters, not the Rocky Mountain oyster. I can understand. Yeah. Well, Enrique, it is time for us to leave the lounge. What is one travel item not including your phone, not including your passport, that you will not leave home without?

Enrique Saenz: 27:40

That was a great question. Rick, I love that question. And after thinking about it, I I cannot leave my home and travel without this, this small rosary that I bought in Mexico. I am, I am a believer. I am not that religious. I'd like to go to Mass, you know. But I have this, this rosary that I bought in Mexico in the Guadalupe church there. And it's, and it's made out of of rose, rose petals, you know, the beads. So I have it there in my in my night desk, and I usually carry it with me when I'm traveling out of Guatemala or in Guatemala as well, you know, just to protect me. So I like to take that

Rick Denton: 28:39

Enrique. I find that answer very special. It also reminds me there was a former guest. She was from Spain. Forgive me if I listeners, if I get the name wrong, but it was Silvana bull John, I believe, yeah. And she had a similar answer about rosary, and it was, it's, it's just kind of special that the tranquility, the peace that that that faith can provide when you're traveling, and the protection that you're seeking while you're traveling. I really do I appreciate and enjoy that answer. What I what I don't appreciate, is the passing of time. Unfortunately, my gosh, we have had such a healthy conversation that we're running out of time here. But there's a question that I'm inspired to ask based off of something you said earlier, and you were talking about technology, and I think it was when you were talking about, you know, surveys are not the only or even the way to get the voice of the customer. And the reality is, I know you've done a lot of work with experience management tools and CX passport conversations. Have done this several times, but I want to get your perspective on, you know, the tool is not the end result. The technology implementation is not the goal. The survey is not the goal. The goal is tangible business results. So how are you helping companies get to those actual, tangible business results?

Enrique Saenz: 29:54

I totally agree. You know, technology is an enabler, and now more than ever, we have so many. Technology, you know that it's, it's almost impossible to have everything on board, you know. And there is a big push to to what, what is the digital transformation, you know, and, and usually the it, it areas are pushing for this digital transformation, but they have to understand that it has to start with the customer, you know, like, like Steve Jobs said, you know, you cannot start with the technology. Have to start with the customer. So these CX efforts are going to help IT departments to understand the needs better and to implement the best technology for the customers. So that's, that's very important. We, I used to investigate a lot about technology, you know, especially during pandemic, where all the consulting and, you know, the the speaking engagements and everything were down. I investigated a lot about different survey platforms, but CX platforms, you know, and there's some that are specialized in small businesses. So there's specialized in B to B. Others are the ones that are for everybody, you know. And so are so big and so strong that they recognize as a as the leaders. But I think that in the end, it's, it's still technology, you know, and we're going to be seeing much more of technology all over and and big companies pushing this so that they can sell it to everybody in the world, right, become the Microsoft. And you need to, you need to become, to become a leader. I think that you need to implement a strategy, a CX strategy. I think that's one of the most important things, and that strategy has to include the governance model. You know that, how are you going to manage this, this strategy, and make make the strategy come true. So the strategy part is also important because, because that's how you get everybody on board, including the this, the top level, you know, if they find it that this has to be a strategy, a corporate part of part of the corporate strategy, then it's going to be for everybody in the company to do, you know, and then the, the other part that we work With is just getting the organization involved, you know, in the in the project, I don't believe that the CX team has to do everything you know, because we always put put so much pressure on the CX team. And what we have to do is the CX team has to make sure that everybody is on board in this, and everybody you know works on their part, if you have the technology to to capture data, and then you can analyze it fast, and then you have to democratize the data to make it go to the people that can make the changes. And are the experts in the changes. You know, the people that deal with the consumers directly, especially, you know, they have to have the empowerment to be able to make change. Yeah, you're not going to come and impose the change on them, because they're not going to believe and they're they're not going to, they're not going to work with you most of the time, because they are the experts. You know, they know what the customer is seeing. They they talk to the customer all the time. So those are the two most important aspects of a CX program. I think it's getting the strategy correct, you know, and develop a good strategy, and then getting everybody on board by getting them the data that they need and allowing them to act. Because acting is the most important thing

Rick Denton: 33:42

we're stopping right there. That is the strategy and the buy in. And I heard you, you kind of snuck inside of strategy, the how it gets done, too. So the process and execution as well. And that's it. That's that's how you get to tangible business results. It's not the tool, it's the actual change. It's the strategy. It's the execution of it. Enrique, been a fun conversation today. If folks wanted to get to know a little bit more about you, your approach to customer experience, about perception is CX. What's the best way for them to get in touch with

Enrique Saenz: 34:14

you? Well, through through LinkedIn. I mean LinkedIn, and we're working on our website right now, but perceptions cx.com and my email is, is assigns at perception cx.com but in LinkedIn, you can find me. I want to say that this is also very important, something that I think about all the time. But I am not the expert in CX you know, I I'm still learning. I'm learning from the technology. I'm learning from Bain and Company I'm learning from the cxpa. And I think for anybody to come and say, This is my, my strategy, or my my theory or my model, they have to have a very. Big, you know, baggage of experiences and of work that they have done best, the best CX advisors are going to tell you where they, their, their information got from. You know, who, who is the, the owner of the theory, which, in my case, I have been, I believe that is, it's in the NPS, it's been and company. Yeah. So we have to be very, very clear about where, where our theory is coming from, and what we preach. Because nobody, nobody's reinventing the sugar water. You know,

Rick Denton: 35:33

well, one of the things that I appreciate that, and you're saying a phrase that's similar to one that I've said in a different way, and that is the moment that someone declares themselves to be an expert. Is the moment that you know they aren't because they are then saying that they haven't. They don't need to learn anything. They don't need to learn anything new. And so I appreciate your point about the fact that, look, there's a lot out there. And if someone is not admitting, hey, look, I'm learning, and these are the sources from where I'm learning that information, they are not the experts. So with that, listeners and viewers, you definitely want to connect to somebody like Enrique science and get his perspective, because it's been one that I have enjoyed today. I've enjoyed not only the customer experience, the origin stories that you were describing how you got into it, the tales of Guatemala that have me very, very intrigued, and then the path to tangible business results, which is so vital. Enrique, it has been a delightful conversation. Thank you for being on CX passport as well.

Enrique Saenz: 36:28

Thank you for the invitation.

Rick Denton: 36:35

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. If you liked today’s episode I have 3 quick next steps for you Click subscribe on the CX Passport youtube channel or your favorite podcast app Next leave a comment below the video or a review in your favorite podcast app so others can find and and enjoy CX Passport too Then, head over to cxpassport.com website for show notes and resources that can help you create tangible business results by delivering great customer experience. Until next time, I’m Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.